Tourism the "Broken" System.

JosEPh_II

JosEPh_II

TBS WarLord
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
16,940
Location
Western IL. cornfields
There are many "Problems" with the Property system Tourism and the usage of Tourism in the Mod.

According to the XML files Tourism does not start to work until the Tech Classical Lifestyle has been researched.
Exhibit 1.
Code: 
<!-- Tourism (Level 1) -->
           <BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_TOURISM_PLUS1</BuildingClass>
           <Type>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS1</Type>
           <Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS1</Description>
           <Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_TOURISM_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
           <Strategy>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_TOURISM_STRATEGY</Strategy>
           <Advisor>ADVISOR_ECONOMY</Advisor>
           <!-- Graphical and interface -->
           <ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_TOURISM</ArtDefineTag>
           <iMinAreaSize>-1</iMinAreaSize>
           <fVisibilityPriority>1</fVisibilityPriority>
           <!-- Prerequisites -->
[color=red]           <PrereqTech>TECH_CLASSICAL_LIFESTYLE</PrereqTech>[/color]
All Tourism (Level 1 thru level 10) start this way, PrereqTech>TECH_CLASSICAL_LIFESTYLE<.

But yet we have Prehistoric (and possibly Ancient) Wonders and iirc some Prehistoric and Ancient buildings that give Tourism values that are displayed under the city screen tab Properties (right side). Yet every Level of Tourism has the prereq that Classical Life must be researched 1st.

Question: Is this a Modding oversight by the Wonder and Building makers? Or does the property Tourism actually accrue and hold Tourism "points" from the very 1st turn?

From the xml files the Property itself has No PrereqTech restriction:
Code: 
<PropertyInfo>
           <Type>PROPERTY_TOURISM</Type>
           <Description>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM</Description>
           <Strategy>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_STRATEGY</Strategy>
           <ValueDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_DISPLAY</ValueDisplayText>
           <ChangeDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_CHANGE</ChangeDisplayText>
           <ChangeAllCitiesDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_CHANGE_ALL_CITIES</ChangeAllCitiesDisplayText>
           <PrereqMinDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_PREREQ_MIN</PrereqMinDisplayText>
           <PrereqMaxDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_PREREQ_MAX</PrereqMaxDisplayText>
           <bSourceDrain>1</bSourceDrain>
           <iAIWeight>86</iAIWeight>
           <AIScaleType>AISCALE_CITY</AIScaleType>
           <iOperationalRangeMin>0</iOperationalRangeMin>
           <iOperationalRangeMax>10000</iOperationalRangeMax>
           <FontButtonIndex>14</FontButtonIndex>
       <PropertyManipulators>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_DECAY</PropertySourceType>
                     <PropertyType>PROPERTY_TOURISM</PropertyType>
                     <GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</GameObjectType>
                     <iPercent>4</iPercent>
               </PropertySource>

This in turn brings up more questions over this system.

Also the Levels of Tourism start at very low levels, here are the 1st 6 levels:

Code: 
       <PropertyBuildings>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS1</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>10</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
                   </PropertyBuilding>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS2</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>25</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
                   </PropertyBuilding>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS3</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>50</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
                   </PropertyBuilding>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS4</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>100</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
                   </PropertyBuilding>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS5</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>250</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
                   </PropertyBuilding>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS6</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>500</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>

The last 4 levels are more point level intense as Level 10 requires 10,000 "points" to achieve.

Next Problem with Tourism, Malus and Bonuses given:

I have just recently reduced the Malus given in the 4 other Properties associated with Tourism.

Example Level 1:
Code: 
<PropertyManipulators>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_CRIME</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
               </PropertySource>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_DISEASE</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
               </PropertySource>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_AIR_POLLUTION</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
               </PropertySource>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_WATER_POLLUTION</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
Prior to my recent adjustment all 4 gave a value of +5 "bad" AmountPerTurn. And Increased with each subsequent Level achieved by steps of 5. This was adding greatly to the Crime, Disease, Air, and Water Pollution values we are seeing in the later game. Compounding the difficulty to control , by player somewhat, but massively so for the AI.

Now the Bonus side.

Code: 
           <!-- Main effects -->
           <iHappiness>1</iHappiness>
           <CommerceChanges>
               <iCommerce>10</iCommerce>
               <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
               <iCommerce>10</iCommerce>
           </CommerceChanges>
:commerce: is increased at Level 1 by 10%
:culture: is increased at Level 1 by again 10%.

Levels 1-9 all have these same "10" commerce values.
Question: Do these Comerce values Stack? Or do all these levels only give the same results?
Level 10 jumps the value to "20".
Question: The Malus were/are increasing with each level attained (not so as much now after my partial changes) and in reality giving higher Malus while only giving the "same" Bonuses until level 10 was achieved?

I have more Questions about this system and it's workings. But these Questions will provide a basis to start working from to correct and redefine this Property.

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
Or does the property Tourism actually accrue and hold Tourism "points" from the very 1st turn?
Click to expand...
If there are unrestricted sources on the buildings, then the points will accumulate.

From the xml files the Property itself has No PrereqTech restriction:
Click to expand...
There is no direct PrereqTech tag for properties.
But you can add Active tags to property manipulators like sources so they only become active once a certain tech has been researched.
Code: 
<Active>
    <Has>
        <GOMType>GOM_TECH</GOMType>
        <ID>TECH_CLASSICAL_LIFESTYLE</ID>
    </Has>
</Active>
 
AIAndy said:
If there are unrestricted sources on the buildings, then the points will accumulate.


There is no direct PrereqTech tag for properties.
But you can add Active tags to property manipulators like sources so they only become active once a certain tech has been researched.
Code: 
<Active>
    <Has>
        <GOMType>GOM_TECH</GOMType>
        <ID>TECH_CLASSICAL_LIFESTYLE</ID>
    </Has>
</Active>
Click to expand...

From experience, Tourism decays. This makes early game wonders fairly useless, particularly after Prehistoric. I don't believe these tourism effects should be basically muted for old wonders.
 
@AIAndy,

So if this was added to this early Crime giving Prop. manipulator like so:
Code: 
<PropertyManipulators>
              <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_CRIME</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
<Active>
   <Has>
        <GOMType>GOM_TECH</GOMType>
        <ID>TECH_CLASSICAL_LIFESTYLE</ID>
    </Has>
</Active>
               </PropertySource>

Then this level of crime would not come into play until after Classical Lifestyle was Researched, correct?

And the way the system is set up now this Crime starts accruing as soon as the Tourism Level 1 has accrued points = 10 no matter at what point in the game as it has no Prereq condition established like your example.
 
Last edited:
Shoobs said:
From experience, Tourism decays. This makes early game wonders fairly useless, particularly after Prehistoric. I don't believe these tourism effects should be basically muted for old wonders.
Click to expand...
Yes, the decay is active so accumulate is probably the wrong word, as it only goes up to some equilibrium point.

JosEPh_II said:
@AIAndy,

So if this was added to this early Crime giving Prop. manipulator like so:
Code: 
<PropertyManipulators>
              <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_CRIME</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
<Active>
   <Has>
        <GOMType>GOM_TECH</GOMType>
        <ID>TECH_CLASSICAL_LIFESTYLE</ID>
    </Has>
</Active>
               </PropertySource>

Then this level of crime would not come into play until after Classical Lifestyle was Researched, correct?
Click to expand...
Correct.

And the way the system is set up now this Crime starts accruing as soon as the Tourism Level 1 has accrued points = 10 no matter at what point in the game as it has no Prereq condition established like your example.
Click to expand...
The tourism itself has no prerequisite but the auto buildings like Tourism Level 1 do, so if that is a crime source on a tourism auto building with a tech prereq, then it won't happen until the prereq is met.
 
Okay next question in this process, 1st the xml file:

Code: 
       <!-- Tourism (Level 1) -->
           <BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_TOURISM_PLUS1</BuildingClass>
           <Type>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS1</Type>
           <Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS1</Description>
           <Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_TOURISM_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
           <Strategy>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_TOURISM_STRATEGY</Strategy>
           <Advisor>ADVISOR_ECONOMY</Advisor>
           <!-- Graphical and interface -->
           <ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_TOURISM</ArtDefineTag>
           <iMinAreaSize>-1</iMinAreaSize>
           <fVisibilityPriority>1</fVisibilityPriority>
           <!-- Prerequisites -->
           <PrereqTech>TECH_CLASSICAL_LIFESTYLE</PrereqTech>
           <!-- Construction cost -->
           <iCost>-1</iCost>
           <!-- Main effects -->
           <iHappiness>1</iHappiness>
           <CommerceChanges>
               <iCommerce>10</iCommerce>
               <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
               <iCommerce>10</iCommerce>
           </CommerceChanges>
           <!-- Special properties -->
           <bNukeImmune>1</bNukeImmune>
           <iConquestProb>100</iConquestProb>
           <!-- Properties diffusion -->
           <PropertyManipulators>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_CRIME</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
               </PropertySource>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_DISEASE</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
               </PropertySource>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_AIR_POLLUTION</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
               </PropertySource>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
                   <PropertyType>PROPERTY_WATER_POLLUTION</PropertyType>
                   <iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
               </PropertySource>
           </PropertyManipulators>
       </BuildingInfo>

Alright since the Property manipulaters do not have the ;

Code: 
<Active>
  <Has>
        <GOMType>GOM_TECH</GOMType>
        <ID>TECH_CLASSICAL_LIFESTYLE</ID>
    </Has>
</Active>

Are they affected by the :
Code: 
   <!-- Prerequisites -->
           <PrereqTech>TECH_CLASSICAL_LIFESTYLE</PrereqTech>
???

Or does this Only affect the Building Tourism Plus 1 time placement? Basically it can not be used until this Prereq is fulfilled? As this is what I take it to mean. And therefore the property manipulators are not active till then either?

EDIT: This is the Property settings for Tourism;

Code: 
    <PropertyInfo>
           <Type>PROPERTY_TOURISM</Type>
           <Description>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM</Description>
           <Strategy>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_STRATEGY</Strategy>
           <ValueDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_DISPLAY</ValueDisplayText>
           <ChangeDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_CHANGE</ChangeDisplayText>
           <ChangeAllCitiesDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_CHANGE_ALL_CITIES</ChangeAllCitiesDisplayText>
           <PrereqMinDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_PREREQ_MIN</PrereqMinDisplayText>
           <PrereqMaxDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_PREREQ_MAX</PrereqMaxDisplayText>
           <bSourceDrain>1</bSourceDrain>
           <iAIWeight>86</iAIWeight>
           <AIScaleType>AISCALE_CITY</AIScaleType>
           <iOperationalRangeMin>0</iOperationalRangeMin>
           <iOperationalRangeMax>10000</iOperationalRangeMax>
           <FontButtonIndex>14</FontButtonIndex>
       <PropertyManipulators>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_DECAY</PropertySourceType>
                     <PropertyType>PROPERTY_TOURISM</PropertyType>
                     <GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</GameObjectType>
                     <iPercent>4</iPercent>
               </PropertySource>
               <!--
               <PropertyPropagator>
                     <PropertyPropagatorType>PROPERTYPROPAGATOR_DIFFUSE</PropertyPropagatorType>
                     <PropertyType>PROPERTY_TOURISM</PropertyType>
                     <GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</GameObjectType>
                     <TargetObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</TargetObjectType>
                     <TargetRelationType>RELATION_TRADE</TargetRelationType>
                     <iPercent>5</iPercent>
               </PropertyPropagator>
               -->
             </PropertyManipulators>
           <PropertyBuildings>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS1</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>10</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
                   </PropertyBuilding>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS2</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>25</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
                   </PropertyBuilding>

Now is here the better place for the GOM_TECH placement? As there is no Prereq requirement as you pointed out.
 
Last edited:
JosEPh_II said:
Or does this Only affect the Building Tourism Plus 1 time placement? Basically it can not be used until this Prereq is fulfilled? As this is what I take it to mean. And therefore the property manipulators are not active till then either?
Click to expand...
Correct. The property manipulators on the building are only active when the building is "built" and it is only "built" if both the property levels are high enough and all requirements for the building are met (so all tags of the building can be used to restrict property effects).

EDIT: This is the Property settings for Tourism;

Code: 
    <PropertyInfo>
           <Type>PROPERTY_TOURISM</Type>
           <Description>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM</Description>
           <Strategy>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_STRATEGY</Strategy>
           <ValueDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_DISPLAY</ValueDisplayText>
           <ChangeDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_CHANGE</ChangeDisplayText>
           <ChangeAllCitiesDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_CHANGE_ALL_CITIES</ChangeAllCitiesDisplayText>
           <PrereqMinDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_PREREQ_MIN</PrereqMinDisplayText>
           <PrereqMaxDisplayText>TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_TOURISM_PREREQ_MAX</PrereqMaxDisplayText>
           <bSourceDrain>1</bSourceDrain>
           <iAIWeight>86</iAIWeight>
           <AIScaleType>AISCALE_CITY</AIScaleType>
           <iOperationalRangeMin>0</iOperationalRangeMin>
           <iOperationalRangeMax>10000</iOperationalRangeMax>
           <FontButtonIndex>14</FontButtonIndex>
       <PropertyManipulators>
               <PropertySource>
                   <PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_DECAY</PropertySourceType>
                     <PropertyType>PROPERTY_TOURISM</PropertyType>
                     <GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</GameObjectType>
                     <iPercent>4</iPercent>
               </PropertySource>
               <!--
               <PropertyPropagator>
                     <PropertyPropagatorType>PROPERTYPROPAGATOR_DIFFUSE</PropertyPropagatorType>
                     <PropertyType>PROPERTY_TOURISM</PropertyType>
                     <GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</GameObjectType>
                     <TargetObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</TargetObjectType>
                     <TargetRelationType>RELATION_TRADE</TargetRelationType>
                     <iPercent>5</iPercent>
               </PropertyPropagator>
               -->
             </PropertyManipulators>
           <PropertyBuildings>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS1</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>10</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
                   </PropertyBuilding>
               <PropertyBuilding>
                       <BuildingType>BUILDING_TOURISM_PLUS2</BuildingType>
                       <iMinValue>25</iMinValue>
                       <iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>
                   </PropertyBuilding>

Now is here the better place for the GOM_TECH placement? As there is no Prereq requirement as you pointed out.
Click to expand...
I assume you mean in the PropertyBuilding tags? No, there is no support for the Active tag there.

While early tourism has no effect without the auto buildings, it might confuse people to see the property on cities so I would suggest putting the GOM_TECH Active tag on the tourism PropertyManipulators of the wonders that can be built earlier than the tech. That way the tourism is not produced or shown earlier than it has an effect.
 
AIAndy said:
Correct. The property manipulators on the building are only active when the building is "built" and it is only "built" if both the property levels are high enough and all requirements for the building are met (so all tags of the building can be used to restrict property effects).


I assume you mean in the PropertyBuilding tags? No, there is no support for the Active tag there.

While early tourism has no effect without the auto buildings, it might confuse people to see the property on cities so I would suggest putting the GOM_TECH Active tag on the tourism PropertyManipulators of the wonders that can be built earlier than the tech. That way the tourism is not produced or shown earlier than it has an effect.
Click to expand...

But those wonders don't generate any tourism once they go obsolete. That is why I'm making my argument to kill their actual benefits but not letting the wonders actually go obsolete so they can actually utilize the boost to tourism they're supposed to give.
 
The short answer is that originally Tourism was suppose to be a property that started from the beginning of the game, which is why Prehistoric stuff had tourism values. However I am not sure if it was before or after I left that it got pushed back to Classical Lifestyle tech. I am not really in agreement with this choice but I can roll with it. However it means that any buildings before that are pointless until later. That's if they don't go obsolete first. So I can see the real issue in that it was intended to be one way, then tweaked and then unintended consequences happened from moving it.
 
The problem was that cities were collapsing due to Tourism induced Crime in the Prehistoric Era. The first evidence for any form of Tourism comes from the Classical Era so as a quick fix it was turned off everything until then so we could get a release out.

Further research suggests that Trade is the tech more appropriate to the start of tourism. However the whole of Tourism needs to be looked into and rebalanced in light of the other changes.
 
Shoobs said:
But those wonders don't generate any tourism once they go obsolete. That is why I'm making my argument to kill their actual benefits but not letting the wonders actually go obsolete so they can actually utilize the boost to tourism they're supposed to give.
Click to expand...

They are not generating any that you can Use right now either. Yes they are displayed but your not getting any from them at all. And that is the point. AIAndy has pointed out a way that they can give Tourism after they go Obsolete with the other Bonuses they give.
 
JosEPh_II said:
Also the Levels of Tourism start at very low levels, here are the 1st 6 levels:
Click to expand...
We can always adjust the operational levels of the buildings a bit but it should be an incrementally growing amount to get to the next, much like the tech cost chart.

JosEPh_II said:
Prior to my recent adjustment all 4 gave a value of +5 "bad" AmountPerTurn. And Increased with each subsequent Level achieved by steps of 5. This was adding greatly to the Crime, Disease, Air, and Water Pollution values we are seeing in the later game. Compounding the difficulty to control , by player somewhat, but massively so for the AI.
Click to expand...
These should probably start off small and grow with each stage rather than being a static amount at each stage.

JosEPh_II said:
Levels 1-9 all have these same "10" commerce values.
Question: Do these Comerce values Stack? Or do all these levels only give the same results?
Level 10 jumps the value to "20".
Click to expand...
These are cumulative. These autobuildings don't replace or obsolete the ones before them so they just continue to add to the previous ones. You could theoretically arrange it differently so that they show the sum total of the values of that level of tourism by having the upper end of the operational range of each building end at the same value that the next one is qualified but there's the possibility of having an overlap or gap between them so you'd have to be sure how to do it right. AKA, I'm not sure if you ended the range of building 1 at 10 and started the range of building 2 at 10 if you'd have an overlap where both building 1 and 2 are constructed in the city when the city is exactly at 10 or if you'd instead want building 1 to end at 9, at which point, does it get removed AT 9 or at 10? I'm not sure. I could refer to the code to know for sure if you need the answer to that.


JosEPh_II said:
Question: The Malus were/are increasing with each level attained (not so as much now after my partial changes) and in reality giving higher Malus while only giving the "same" Bonuses until level 10 was achieved?
Click to expand...
No, all were cumulative. Both maluses, and benefits.

From a design perspective, I'd like to suggest that the autobuildings are only introduced over the spread of the tech tree, as our Education levels have been adjusted to do. Only the latest eras should have to deal with the uppermost levels of tourism.

Furthermore, I'm thinking that some population limits might be in order for these buildings.

@AIAndy: I'd also like to know if there would be a way to say that the total population of all cities within the trade network of the city can be made a prerequisite with the current tags we have. It seems to me that a level of tourism should be limited by the amount of potential tourists.

Shoobs said:
But those wonders don't generate any tourism once they go obsolete. That is why I'm making my argument to kill their actual benefits but not letting the wonders actually go obsolete so they can actually utilize the boost to tourism they're supposed to give.
Click to expand...
Interesting point... I don't know if PropertyManimpulatorrs can be commanded to be operative after obsoletion or not.

@AIAndy: Is there a way to instruct a building's PropertyManipulator continue to operate after obsoletion?

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Further research suggests that Trade is the tech more appropriate to the start of tourism. However the whole of Tourism needs to be looked into and rebalanced in light of the other changes.
Click to expand...
That seems like a good first stage qualification. Spreading out the rest across the tech tree would also be good, as noted. The thing is, the larger, more interconnected world can present more volume of tourism and the infrastructure and law enforcement management systems can potentially handle more as well. With LE units being more and more effective, cities can handle more and more tourism.

JosEPh_II said:
AIAndy has pointed out a way that they can give Tourism after they go Obsolete with the other Bonuses they give.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I'm being daft... did I miss that somewhere? Can you highlight that for me?
 
AIAndy said:
I assume you mean in the PropertyBuilding tags? No, there is no support for the Active tag there.

While early tourism has no effect without the auto buildings, it might confuse people to see the property on cities so I would suggest putting the GOM_TECH Active tag on the tourism PropertyManipulators of the wonders that can be built earlier than the tech. That way the tourism is not produced or shown earlier than it has an effect.
Click to expand...
This? This is saying that you should use the Active tag to define when the PropertyManipulator begins. But if the building is obsolete, then even this tag usage would be further obsolete if I'm not mistaken. I don't know if there is currently a way to program a Property Manipulator tag so that it would remain in effect after obsoletion.
 
Thunderbrd said:
@AIAndy: I'd also like to know if there would be a way to say that the total population of all cities within the trade network of the city can be made a prerequisite with the current tags we have. It seems to me that a level of tourism should be limited by the amount of potential tourists.
Click to expand...
I am not entirely sure what you mean with trade network. If you mean the cities in the trade list of the city, then yes, that is possible. Or you could use the game or player population.

@AIAndy: Is there a way to instruct a building's PropertyManipulator continue to operate after obsoletion?
Click to expand...
Not directly. At least not in a way that the user sees on the building. Well, you could have some constructed or auto-built buildings that can only be built after the wonder has been obsoleted that then represent the tourist value like Ruins of whatever and you might only get them by excavating with an archeologist or something later.
 
I can agree with the last part of your post, AIAndy, but what about how Stone Tools Workshop goes down to nearly useless? Or the many myths? How about using that method instead of obsolescence.
 
Shoobs said:
I can agree with the last part of your post, AIAndy, but what about how Stone Tools Workshop goes down to nearly useless? Or the many myths? How about using that method instead of obsolescence.
Click to expand...
Definitely the easier method when possible.
 
:) The buildings continue to hold Slots for wonders, regardless, so why not right? Until they somehow get removed from slots for obsolescence, I would much prefer that method to keep tourism values intact.
 
To bring an example that can be considered an unbalanced boost jump, in the Massive MP Game I'm not yet with Classical Lifestyle, but my Capital (due to Unlimited Wonders) is already with more then 500 Tourism accumulated. With my plans of technological progression, I'm pretty sure I'll have more then 1000 tourism when I research Classifical Lifestyle, which will give me 7 levels of Tourism right at once. As Joseph has put, all tourism levels are still triggered with Classical Lifestyle, so this is still an issue in the current version (as the massive mp is already old).

Of course it'll have a huge impact on Crime and Disease, but by training a few healers and town watchmen I can compensate that, and it won't eat too much of my new +70:gold: from all that tourism. IMO Unlimited Wonders is to blame, but maybe this is another reason to rethink Tourism?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

pineappledan
  • Locked
(6-36b) The "Intelligence" Spy System
2 3
Replies
45
Views
6K
Recursive
Recursive
pineappledan
The "Intelligence" Espionage System - Draft 1.0
2
Replies
33
Views
4K
rkkn
R
S
Review of the Spy System (4.5.1)
Replies
18
Views
3K
azum4roll
A
Recursive
  • Locked
New Version - 3.0.4 (November 29, 2022)
15 16 17
Replies
327
Views
53K
Recursive
Recursive
Azurian
Proposed Properties
2 3 4
Replies
73
Views
11K
Faustmouse
F
Back
Top Bottom