TR02 - Losers move up to Emporer

[Mach]

Preflight -- El-Amarna to worker
Rome will get to 15spt @ size 8 with 1 more mined grass & 2 mined hills
MM Veii for growth, the rest look good
(I) Brennus boots us
Rome settler --> horse
Veii worker --> settler
Antium worker --> granary
Neapolis worker --> horse
Ravenna FP --> horse
Iron Wines worker --> worker
Russians finish colossus

T1 (530BC) -- various unit moves, toying with Egyptian settler
We revolt! Fix happiness...

Treasure of 3g @ -47gpt.
(I) Pompeii revolts, sorry missed one
Volcano erupts w of Pompeii, frying some Celtic & Russian units, heh

T2 (510BC) -- Worker moves, settler arrives at blue dot
(I) Hammu founds an embassy with us

T3 (490BC) -- Palmyra founded on blue dot, set to rax
More worker moves, more toying with Egyptian settler
(I) -- nothing

T4 (470BC) -- More worker moves, more toying with Egypt
(I) We are a republic.
Celts build Artemis
Plenty o' cascading...Babs build TGL...more cascading...

T5 (450BC) -- Lots of MM. Move scientist to Neapolis
Continue tangling with Egypt. They seem to be retreating.
(I) Heliopolis riots, of course, because it was whipped. Sorry...
Arabs build Great Wall
Egypt builds Hanging Gardens

T6 (430BC) -- Egyptian settler is retreating
(I) Egypt declares war!
They raze El-Amarna...
Babs boot us.
Giza riots
Celts are building Leo's...they have Invention...Babs too.
Arabs build the Mausoleum

T7 (410BC) -- Giza horsemen kills Egyptian archer
various movements...
(I) -- not much. Egyptians found Hieraconpolis where El-Amarna was.
2 Egyptian chariots approach Heliopolis
Move scientist to Giza

T8 (390BC) -- Kill Egyptian warrior, losing a horse.
(I) -- Heliopolis is razed...

T9 (370BC) -- Getting some WW. Raise lux to 20%. Egypt won't talk.
Worker moves.
(I) -- not much

T10 (350BC) -- Attack Hieraconpolis with 2 horses, both retreat, taking only 1hp off of spear
Settler moving toward AK's light blue dot


*sigh* So we're in Republic. We're at war with Egypt and they won't talk. I founded one new city, and lost two more. I built a few horsemen, but also lost one. The wines will be connected in 3 turns. Veii will be a 4-turn settler factory once it has wines. Rome will be at 15spt when it grows once more, and the two mines are done. Neapolis will be at 10spt when it has wines. We're down mono & invention to 4 civs. Not very good turns, I'm afraid, although I'm not sure what I could have done about it.

So for the next player, keep improving the core; many hills need mining. Make a worker factory in Antium -- it's right now on max shields toward granary. We need to get out of this Egyptian war...

The Save

The Egyptian front...

...and where that settler is going.

 

[eldar]

Suggest that we send the next available Settler here, and station a military unit there until it's ready. Would hate for Mao to get hold of this spot:

Re: the war... forget Cathy for now, press on against Cleo. Has she been at war with China? There's a razed Egyptian city in the far east, or was that one of the ones we took for peace?

Thebes is a nice prize now, with the HG.

Disband any regular Warriors now we're in Republic. We should also upgrade the Vet warriors to Legions.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I think that the egyptian war would be good. Cleo just built the Hangning gardens and now we can take it from her.... On to Thebes!!!

I agree with eldar about the landbridge near Chengdu. That will help contain the Chinese.

Do we want to start our GA? or should we wait until everything is settled out first? our GA could help us build a few knights once we get chivalry so my vote is to wait a while.

We also need to start building markets in our core cities one at a time.

 

[dmanakho]

Oh pesky Egyptians..
I wonder why would they declare and trash their own rep...
Well, i have always wondered if rep hit matters for AIs... Looks like no matter how bad it is it doesn't affect them but human player only.

That city - El-Amarna probably hadn't had garrison and that's why they declared... Just a guess... Having a single warrior stationed inside a city makes a huge difference on AIs willingless to start war.

We might keep pressing them and we probably won't need so many troops to capture Egypt. Just make sure we are the ones who capturing cities from now on. HG is not a good wonder, gems that egypt has are more important.
Oh, we probably won't be able to have long war with Egypt because of WW.
When you are republic and our cities get razed WW hits really bad.

I wouldn't start GA quite yet. I want that GPT deal we have to expire and core cities to grow in pop a little bit more. That way we will have better kick once GA starts. Another reason i don't want to start GA now - i want to have more cities around FP city so we can use our GA to improve those to as well, but that measn we have to fight russians to get it.

Agree on city location Eldar suggested. Antium builds granary - I say lets convert it to military factory as well instead of making a dedicated worker pump.
We can shave worker from each city that reaches certain size and when it doesn't hurt production. Like Neapolis - don't build settlers there, make workers upon reaching size 6. If Veii can be 4 or 5 turn settler factory that should be enough for now.
Agree on one at a time marker - how about we start with Antium, switch that one to Market .
Oh, and this time make sure we have garrisons in each of our border citiies.


How about research?? Can we start researching invention on max now???
Do we have positive GPT once we switched to republic?

 

[eldar]

HG may not be a good wonder in the long run, true (unless we're not planning to get rails, but I don't think it's looking that way...) - but having it during our GA will be nice, if we still need Lux to control our populace.

 

[dmanakho]

HG may not be a good wonder in the long run, true (unless we're not planning to get rails, but I don't think it's looking that way...) - but having it during our GA will be nice, if we still need Lux to control our populace.

Does HG makes people happy only in city it's built or everywhere else as well?
In latter case it is a good wonder but if it only affects city it is built in it will be useless since captured Thebes is going to be:
1. starved
2. nearly 100% corrupted.

 

[Mach]

Yeah, El-Amarna was ungarrisoned. I had pulled the warrior out of Antium to help with the settler herding (the fact that Egypt had a warrior a bit ahead of the settler made the herding a bit tricky). Once that was done, I was moving our warrior to garrison El-Arama...but I was two turns too late. What I should have done was bring the horseman up from Rome...sorry, guys.

Do we have positive GPT once we switched to republic?

Yes, we're at +20gpt the last I remember. Sometime in the next turnset those gpt deals will expire, and that'll jump to almost 70gpt. So we can turn on max research. I didn't know that was ppl's intention, otherwise I could have started that 5 turns ago. Question: what is the advantage of starting a min run if you're going to switch to max later on? Those 12 beakers we invested during anarchy might shave a turn off, but...

As far as Antium goes I was thinking along different lines. I think Rome can be at 15spt by the end of the next turnset with the help of another worker...if we put it at minimal growth at that point. Neapolis, too, can be at 10spt very soon if we put it at minimal growth once the wines are hooked up. Other cities are in similar situations, just longer term. This is what I was aiming at with my worker moves -- I'm working some hills around Rome, for instance. But if we do it this way, we can't skim workers out of these cities...and IMO we need more workers. Should we delay our cities getting to 10 or 15spt for growth/workers? My opinion is we should max out these military factories earlier, and make Antium into our worker factory...

 

[eldar]

@dman:
HG makes 3 unhappy->content in city it's built, 1 unhappy->content everywhere else (and it's not continental, either). Expires with Steam.

Essentially a free Temple in every city, except where it's built, it's the same effect as a Cathedral.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I'm almost certain that the civlopedia tells us that the HG give 1 content person to all FRIENDLY cities. I'm not positive on what is the definition of friendly but I take it to mean that all civs at peace with you. In that case, it could prevent civs from going to war with us and let us decide the timing of future wars.

 

[dmanakho]

Ok. I agree HG is a good wonder.
But i won't feel bad if we don't take it now.
other than HG egypt mainland is useless to us, while russian mainland will be quite productive due to FP expanded core.
Plus i really want to take care of Cathy before she start blitzing us with cossacks.

Haven't seen any roster in a while.
Captain??

 

[Tubby Rower]

Boy you sure are demanding....

Roster:
Admiral Kutzov
eldar
dman
Mach - just played
Tubby Rower - up
Minute Man - On deck


I guess this means that I got it. I'll try to play tonight. Are we just slapping around Cleo or are we going to make her move to Atlantis?

 

[dmanakho]

If you feel we can get rid of her in next 10-15 turns do it.
We didn't want it but she asked for troubles her self...
Just don't attack here cities for 2-3 horses... collect bigger stacks before you do it..
Try to avoid GAs until the war is almost over..
That way we can use a little peace time to build markets and libs everywhere and not one at a time.

 

[Tubby Rower]

330 BC - China demands Eng. tell him no
Arabia complete SoZ in Najran
310 BC - Celts started KT
arabs building GLH
270 raze Hercornopolis (lose 1 horse 2 retreat)
250 babs are building KT
230 Aztecs are building leos
170 Aztec complete SunTzu in Tenochtitlan
150 volcano erupted and destroyed a 3 pop Chinese town

resource summary
China no horses - iron but not hooked up
Cleo no iron - 2 horses one disconnected and spongebob should disconnect other next turn
Cathy no iron
Aztecs no horse
Baby - no horse or iron
Arabia - no iron
Celts no iron

save to come later. We are a good bit behind in techs. We are only weak against the Aztecs I believe. Everyone else we are average or strong against. I think that that volcano earlier helped out quite a bit. We are accumulating forces and need to use them because we are paying through the nose with them. We can get peace with Cleo for her only 1 pop city. I took 2 settlers and turn them into 4 slaves during my turns.

Save from 150BC

Screenie

 

[Minute Man]

How far do we want to press the war against Egypt? I'm sort of leaning toward the "just slap Cleo around a bit" approach - the HG would be nice, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort of trying to take (and hold) Thebes right now. So it might be worth making peace soon and turning our attention westward.

 

[dmanakho]

Will be hard to take Thebes with it's pop9.
Will take lots of horses.
I am not worried about techs.. We will catch when we enter GA.
Let's make a decision on what to do with our army and whether we should make peace with egypt and strike russia in next few turns or we keep pressing egypt.
Problem with egypt it is so far and no roads. will take forever just to get even horses over there.
While if we strike russia we can take several cities in just few turns.
Has Russia been fighthing Celts these turns?

Suggestions?
Admiral? Where are you? we haven't seen you in a while.
I really really hope i am not the reason ... I am sorry, i really am.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Admiral? Where are you? we haven't seen you in a while.
I really really hope i am not the reason ... I am sorry, i really am.

Sorry? For what?

Catching up on the reading. I'm kinda tired tonight after having a mandatory "optional" meeting to attend and then it taking 40 minutes to drive 5 miles on back roads in a snow storm.

I'll look at the save tomorrow. Off the top of my head, here are the ideas:

Plant cities where land is open in the egytian choke then get peace. I'm also not worried about techs. Hold off on the GA for now. Get the cities in the core planted! Even if we need to divert horse production from one or two cities.

I need to look at the save and potential trades before further comments. Will get wordy tomorrow.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I didn't see any warring action. Although there are a lot of settler pairs running around in the west. I captured two settlers during my turns.

I agree on suing for peace with Egypt. We can get her 1 pop city and that would need to be defended. Spongebob could should disconnect their horses and then could go defend that city. Since he is an elite that already preduced a leader.

I have moved one or two new horses to the russian front during my turns. There should be an able strike force there by now. Horses are coming off pretty quick (~5 every 3 turns). Rome will have happiness issues upon growing next time. We could either sell the granary to slow growth or skim settlers/workers.

You might want to move the Rusky strike force to another location before declaring. Those mountains will be hard to traverse and nullify the horse speed advantage.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Forgot the....
Roster:
Admiral Kutzov - On deck
eldar
dman
Mach
Tubby Rower- just played
Minute Man - up

 

[Mach]

Just piping up to say I agree with peace with Egypt, as much as I want to they who sneak attacked me and exposed my mistake. Grr.....

We should concentrate on Russia. Worse come to worst, the mountains between us and Egypt makes them easy to bottle up with only a few units, since their chariots can't traverse the rough terrain. So if they redeclare again (reredeclare?) while we're at war with Russia, I think we can contain them...

Nice job, tub! I like slaves. (Never ever thought I'd hear myself every say that sentence, till I met Civ3... )

 

[dmanakho]

So Minute Man...
looks like Russia is next...
Make horsies and attack them...
Don't generate GA right away but rather closer to the end of this war.
Then we will make peace take all the cities/techs/gold russia is willing to give us and improve our infrastructure to generate money flow.

According to Tubby we have quite a good core and can make horses fast... just keep pumping them and remember we need few legions for GA.
Do we have those?