Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Forgot about the ....
Roster:
Admiral Kutzov
eldar - just played
dman - up
Mach - On deck
Tubby Rower
Minute Man
Roster:
Admiral Kutzov
eldar - just played
dman - up
Mach - On deck
Tubby Rower
Minute Man
TR02 - Losers move up to Emporer
- Thread starter Tubby Rower
- Start date
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
Re the double war... i suggest the equine path for the west and SW AI and the slow legion cat route for the NE AI
Actually, i wasn't really happy to see that settler moving up north to get iron and wine we won't connect in next 20-30 turns unless we send there all workers we have.
We NEED CORE CITIES INFRASTRUCTURE!!!!!
I opened the save and what i see, most of our workers improving land around border corrupted cities and nobody seem to be present in core with exception of few slaves.
Never mind Egypt. The only reason they sending settler pairs is because their own land is a waste land and even if they put cities next to us those cities are going to be totally corrupt and won't improve egypt economy at all.
I still believe Russia should be our priority target, but the way things are going we won't have any army in a very long time. (we might start phony war with Egypt just to grab their pop1 cities though)
I thought about research. I suggest (actually i am insisting) to put it to 0 and start collecting gold. With our economy doesn't make any sense to do self-research. We will have to get GA, build markets before starting researching anything.
Well... game wasn't really going the way i would play it alone, but I am not complaining neither i am panicking
.
We will get there, just might take longer and we would be forced to build rail-roads after all
We NEED CORE CITIES INFRASTRUCTURE!!!!!
I opened the save and what i see, most of our workers improving land around border corrupted cities and nobody seem to be present in core with exception of few slaves.
Never mind Egypt. The only reason they sending settler pairs is because their own land is a waste land and even if they put cities next to us those cities are going to be totally corrupt and won't improve egypt economy at all.
I still believe Russia should be our priority target, but the way things are going we won't have any army in a very long time. (we might start phony war with Egypt just to grab their pop1 cities though)
I thought about research. I suggest (actually i am insisting) to put it to 0 and start collecting gold. With our economy doesn't make any sense to do self-research. We will have to get GA, build markets before starting researching anything.
Well... game wasn't really going the way i would play it alone, but I am not complaining neither i am panicking
.We will get there, just might take longer and we would be forced to build rail-roads after all
eldar
ChiefTank
dmanakho said:
More like 12-15, given it can produce a Worker in 10 turns working the Wines, and there's a Worker already roading towards it.
Veii already has enough tiles worked to be a 6-turn Settler factory. Rome may need 1 more tile worked, but if we're going to skim off a Settler when it hits size 6, no more for a bit.
I agree.
They are still the logical first target, but Celts should go next as they're small, have the Pyramids, and Entremont is relatively close by - there's just a Jungle to hack through to get there.
Will probably work, too
We might be able to station troops in the mountains and block off their access to the main landmass (as long as the 'bay' isn't actually an inland sea).Agree, the AI will research Republic quicker than we can and we have enough of a tech advantage over some to buy it.
Well... game wasn't really going the way i would play it alone, but I am not complaining neither i am panicking
The AI are having a tough time, too. Rome is still #2 city - other than Entremont, the AI haven't built any culture in any of their capitals!
We will get there, just might take longer and we would be forced to build rail-roads after all
Choo choo!?
Neil.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
Here's an idea. Once upon a time I played a game as the peaceful Sumerians. I never started any wars, caved to demands and just settled where ever there was space. I got to MT 3-4 techs ahead of the AI, upgraded my horses and went nuts. I actually quit that game cause it got too boring. That was on Monarch, but it may have some application here.
Now, Tubby's asking "How does this affect me?"
I'm not suggesting that we go totally passive but I'm not worried. If we have to wait for Chiv. or MT to have an effective army, so be it. The jungles and mountains make it tough on the movement of the AI as well.
I wasn't suggesting that we fight 2 wars at once. Rather the legions are better suited to take on Cleo and the horses are better suited to take on Cathy.
Now, Tubby's asking "How does this affect me?"
I'm not suggesting that we go totally passive but I'm not worried. If we have to wait for Chiv. or MT to have an effective army, so be it. The jungles and mountains make it tough on the movement of the AI as well.
I wasn't suggesting that we fight 2 wars at once. Rather the legions are better suited to take on Cleo and the horses are better suited to take on Cathy.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Remember that the desired victory is not domination or conquest (dman seems to only play dom/con games). I've opened this one up to any victory condition. I realize that most if not all of the victory type will be easier if you get to the dom limit then go after another victory. I'm cool with the peaceful route since I have yet to play a game without wars til the end. But dman might end up like this 
...
@A-K, make one little statement in true inquiry and now I'll be haunted by it forever!!
...@A-K, make one little statement in true inquiry and now I'll be haunted by it forever!!
Sorry guys for been a little rough...
I just wanted to show how to play this game in the most effective way that's all..
We are militaristic and we've lost half of our trait by not waging early wars.
Just think this way. Have we not moved our settlers far from capital, but instead built those towns around and close to capital with may be just grabbing ivory we would already have all those pop 3to 6 towns with barracks built building horses. By the present time we would be ready for first major campaign and grabbed these iron and wine and much more as a result and we would be in much better shape economy and military wise.
Instead in this game we did what AIs would do - ran for the resources while sacrificing everything else.
I just wanted to show how to play this game in the most effective way that's all..
We are militaristic and we've lost half of our trait by not waging early wars.
Just think this way. Have we not moved our settlers far from capital, but instead built those towns around and close to capital with may be just grabbing ivory we would already have all those pop 3to 6 towns with barracks built building horses. By the present time we would be ready for first major campaign and grabbed these iron and wine and much more as a result and we would be in much better shape economy and military wise.
Instead in this game we did what AIs would do - ran for the resources while sacrificing everything else.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I don't think that you're being rough. Just stating your opinion. I understand your strategy, and think that it is a very valid one. Running for resources seems like a comfort thing. And in order to get a good win date, you seem to have to be slightly uncomfortable at times.
As far as the tiles worked in the core, I think that all of the citizens ARE working improved tiles. It doesn't make sense to improve unused tiles until a little later when populations get bigger than 6.
As far as the tiles worked in the core, I think that all of the citizens ARE working improved tiles. It doesn't make sense to improve unused tiles until a little later when populations get bigger than 6.
I've been so quiet because you keep stating my thoughts before me, dman. (Sorry -- I'll try to pipe up more even if it's just to say I agree with people...dman said:
) I've agreed with you throughout on this one -- I would have rather had the core cities than the luxes. Still, we're in fine shape. Whatever you start during your turns I'll continue with. One question: what infra are you referring to? Rax in new cities is all I can think of. Tile improvements, too. I was thinking maybe we should convert Veii over to a worker factory for awhile after two more core cities are founded. IMO, we will need workers more than we'll need additional outlying cities.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Thanks for the input Mach. Don't be afraid to post even if it is just to agree with people. Sometimes that extra post helps stuff sink into my thick head.
EDIT: Plus it pads your post count
EDIT: Plus it pads your post count
We do need more workers no objections about that.
Neapolis should build a worker each time it reaches pop 6. it can not grow beyond pop 6 at the moment and won't be for some time. So each time when it reaches pop 6 and food box is nearly full it makes perfect sense to build a worker there and city will regrow in 1 turn.
We will indeed pop workers from Veii may be after one or two more settlers are built or between... It depends on what feels right to do at the moment.
Neapolis should build a worker each time it reaches pop 6. it can not grow beyond pop 6 at the moment and won't be for some time. So each time when it reaches pop 6 and food box is nearly full it makes perfect sense to build a worker there and city will regrow in 1 turn.
We will indeed pop workers from Veii may be after one or two more settlers are built or between... It depends on what feels right to do at the moment.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I think that it was that attittude that got us in our current city placement. Workers are most beneficial especially when we start clear cutting the rainforests.dmanakho said:
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
True, true.....
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
@ d-man-have you started? If you haven't, I'll open up the save get back with some ideas. If you have I'll wait until you're done.
IIRC, we're down a couple of MA techs. We were running hard on Rep to use it as trade goods.
Eldar's choice on Iron/Wine (sounds like a hair band song title from the 80's): I'm into iron denial whenever possible. So our horses can crush their horses as previously discussed. iron's also a great trade good considering how much AI will pay for it the railroad era.
Zen/Aristotle/Shemp (a true idol in the idiot world; to be revered by generations thru the magic box that play pictures) thought of the day. My understanding that this is a trainer, not a HOF attempt. What kind of VC do the trainees want to go for? Culturals out BTW. If'in you want 'splain', advise.
All sorts of sidebars to consider. Does everyone have an understanding of tax starving? How bout use of cops and engineers? What do the trainees want to learn about?
IIRC, we're down a couple of MA techs. We were running hard on Rep to use it as trade goods.
Eldar's choice on Iron/Wine (sounds like a hair band song title from the 80's): I'm into iron denial whenever possible. So our horses can crush their horses as previously discussed. iron's also a great trade good considering how much AI will pay for it the railroad era.
Zen/Aristotle/Shemp (a true idol in the idiot world; to be revered by generations thru the magic box that play pictures) thought of the day. My understanding that this is a trainer, not a HOF attempt. What kind of VC do the trainees want to go for? Culturals out BTW. If'in you want 'splain', advise.
All sorts of sidebars to consider. Does everyone have an understanding of tax starving? How bout use of cops and engineers? What do the trainees want to learn about?
Tax starving? I don't know anything by that name, no. 
Are you talking about starving a captured city down by taxing them?
VC... Well, I came in with an open mind, but...being the Romans on a pangea is really begging for a military win, so that's the way I've been leaning lately. Also in my personal games I've actually had more cultural wins (2) than military wins (1)! My first half-dozen solo monarch games all ended in space wins. So I'd prefer to learn military better.
Engineers I have used, cops not so much.
Are you talking about starving a captured city down by taxing them?VC... Well, I came in with an open mind, but...being the Romans on a pangea is really begging for a military win, so that's the way I've been leaning lately. Also in my personal games I've actually had more cultural wins (2) than military wins (1)! My first half-dozen solo monarch games all ended in space wins. So I'd prefer to learn military better.
Engineers I have used, cops not so much.
I've played few turnsAdmiral Kutzov said:
They way we do it we won't get it in next 30 turns and by that time all AIs will have it plus couple of more MA techs.. We are too late for self-research.Admiral Kutzov said:
Why are we late? It is an emperor level and also because our core is so weak.
Can't agree more, but if we played my way we would have armies and captured that iron if not now but in next few turns...Admiral Kutzov said:
Or would it be too late for Railroads???
Admiral Kutzov said:
Nope, I consider this a game to show trainees how to win emperor game in the most effective way. Certainly not HOF attempt. If you look at my scores in xOTMs i never get into 1st 20.
Admiral Kutzov said:
Anything we choose. Actually we will reach our domination limit before anything else but then we can stop and keep going with like Space or histograph.... (Doub't anybody will vote for us in UN by that time though.
)Admiral Kutzov said:
How about we play training DG game next time and that's where cops and engineers will finally appear.
Ok, i'll go get my cup of a hot ceylon tea, will wait for my wife to get home and finish the game. Need some fixin' to do.
(Actually expect at least some good news, but don't want to spoil you guys until full report is posted)
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
You take a size ten city from the AI. Change all the non-resistors to taxmen every turn until it is size one. helps take away the flip risks. That's what I mean by tax starving.
CE's don't help with building military. Cops can add productivity in border towns. More later if this goes that long.
One of the reasons I usually set the climate and make the civ random is that I personally find clearing jungle tedious. Thus I tend to play arid worlds.
I've played SS on no research. way too much MM. Although it's amazing the gold communists can accumulate.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
'kay. I'll hold on comments til dman puts his turns up.
I'm up for that, but I'll have to be a trainee since i have all sorts of problems there unless I play as the Dutch or Carthage on a pelago map with non-seafaring opponents.
pre-turn: i think i want to start a phony war with egypt... move 3 horses from Ravenna towards Egypt... there is a little voice inside me that keeps saying "... blood, i need some blood... kill'm all, kill'em now...."
Ok. China has some gold... sold them CoL for 37g. Little MM needed around Pisae and Lutetia
IBT. China demanded contstruction. We say no they retreat.
T1. 730BC. Iron Wines founded->worker. Pisae settler->settler; switched Rome to settler.
IBT. We have FP message.
T2. 710BC. Move our small army to attack egypt.
IBT. Celts demand 27 gold and i bow. Rome settler->horse. Antium worker->barracks.
T3. 690BC. Brundisium founded. pop-rush library in pompei. Declare on Egypt.
IBT. Russia boots us. looks like Russia and Celts are at war.
T4. 670BC. Pompeii lib->barracks. Auto-raze Byblos. 1 elite kill, lost one ver. horse. I don't really want invide egypt. I just want to raze a city or two and then make peace in exchange of tech or cities.
IBT. Celts are building Sun-Tzu. Aztecs are building Gr.LH.
T5. 650BC. Don't see no Egyptians troops... Well... I will park next city of Giza and either wait for city to grow so i can capture it or for Egypt to start talking to us..
IBT. Celts have Feud...
.. bunch of Barb horses approach Lutetia...
T6. 630BC Syracuse is founded. Dispatching nearby horses to take care of Lutetia barbs. Ok. Bab and Celts know Feud. They both also know republic but no trades available. Egypt still won't talk and won't show up their armies.
IBT. Egyptian horse finally showed up. 5 barb horses moved to the hill near Lutetia.
T7. 610BC. Killed 3 barb horses, 2 to go. Kill egyptian horse - 1st elite attack and we have a leader!
we have a leader! I think i know what i am going to do with it - rush FP in Ravenna. After we take surrounding Russian cities it will make a nice FP location and also will prevent Ravenna from flipping.
Russia knows republic. Aztecs know feud.
our deals will expire in next 2 turns and i should pull something out of this.
Have to hire tax man for 1 tun in Neapolis to avoid riots.
IBT. Celts boot us out.
T8. 590BC. Pompeii settler->settler. leader heads to ravenna. Giza grows to pop 2.
Egypt won't talk - Good. Taking Giza and kill settler pair somewhere else. Egypt now talks. Making peace with egypt and take 2 more cities + 5 gold
things aren't so good on tech front... AIs are way ahead. Bought republic from Babylon for 10gpt+180gold. Herding Egyptian settler pair.
t9. 570BC. Switch Ravenna to barracks, will rush FP next turn. Bought Feud from Aztecs for 109gold and 37gpt. We have 0 gold in treasury and +1running treasury
T10. 550BC. Schnappsville is founded. Rushed FP in Ravenna. Hired tax man in Neapolis to prevent rioting. We are low on money. But i hope once we revolt to republic situation will get better money wise. Plus i believe our GAs are not far away. As soon as we can collect around 10 horses and couple of Legions in single stuck attack Russia.
Research isn't possible right now but i hope it will get better. Revolt next turn after settler in Rome is build. I also switched few builds to workers to be completed next turn and cities will regrow during the anarchy tiem
I suggest to place it 4SW from rome in jungle...
Not the best location but very low corruption is what we need and there is at least a forest to place citizen on for faster barraks built.
Post-turn: there is an egyptian settler pair i was herding. Just keep doing that don't let them to settle to far into our land. SIngle scientist is hired in Heliopolis to research towards Invention. Keep it there during anarchy times. We need to build army to generate our GAs and build markets first followed by libraries to steam our research towards MT during and after GA is over. I envision we will by Mono and chivalry from AIs. Keep building barracks and military units only until we enter GAs. Keep building settlers in Veii. You should figure out a nice settler factory after we switch to republic. Convert Rome to military build facilities. Hook up wines and forward we go. Keep squeezing workers once in a while. Do not afraid to raze lux slider in Republic. But with 3 luxes we should do okay for quite some time.
Suggest to settle on blue dot then on green. Once done our core will be completed but keep building settlers. We might want to raze and replace russian cities to prevent flip risks.
Russians and Celts are busy killing each other so hopefully by the time we have army they won't have many units against us. We might want to attack russia even earlier depending on how situation goes. If we see Celts are overwhelming russia we should also start just to grab those cities around our Forbidden Palace city. We don't have to kill russia, we just want to extend our core around FP city. Egypt could be next target after Russia just to grab Gems they have.
Suggestions from the rest of the team are required
Ok. China has some gold... sold them CoL for 37g. Little MM needed around Pisae and Lutetia
IBT. China demanded contstruction. We say no they retreat.
T1. 730BC. Iron Wines founded->worker. Pisae settler->settler; switched Rome to settler.
IBT. We have FP message.
T2. 710BC. Move our small army to attack egypt.
IBT. Celts demand 27 gold and i bow. Rome settler->horse. Antium worker->barracks.
T3. 690BC. Brundisium founded. pop-rush library in pompei. Declare on Egypt.
IBT. Russia boots us. looks like Russia and Celts are at war.
T4. 670BC. Pompeii lib->barracks. Auto-raze Byblos. 1 elite kill, lost one ver. horse. I don't really want invide egypt. I just want to raze a city or two and then make peace in exchange of tech or cities.
IBT. Celts are building Sun-Tzu. Aztecs are building Gr.LH.
T5. 650BC. Don't see no Egyptians troops... Well... I will park next city of Giza and either wait for city to grow so i can capture it or for Egypt to start talking to us..
IBT. Celts have Feud...
.. bunch of Barb horses approach Lutetia...T6. 630BC Syracuse is founded. Dispatching nearby horses to take care of Lutetia barbs. Ok. Bab and Celts know Feud. They both also know republic but no trades available. Egypt still won't talk and won't show up their armies.
IBT. Egyptian horse finally showed up. 5 barb horses moved to the hill near Lutetia.
T7. 610BC. Killed 3 barb horses, 2 to go. Kill egyptian horse - 1st elite attack and we have a leader!
we have a leader! I think i know what i am going to do with it - rush FP in Ravenna. After we take surrounding Russian cities it will make a nice FP location and also will prevent Ravenna from flipping.Russia knows republic. Aztecs know feud.
our deals will expire in next 2 turns and i should pull something out of this.
Have to hire tax man for 1 tun in Neapolis to avoid riots.
IBT. Celts boot us out.
T8. 590BC. Pompeii settler->settler. leader heads to ravenna. Giza grows to pop 2.
Egypt won't talk - Good. Taking Giza and kill settler pair somewhere else. Egypt now talks. Making peace with egypt and take 2 more cities + 5 gold
things aren't so good on tech front... AIs are way ahead. Bought republic from Babylon for 10gpt+180gold. Herding Egyptian settler pair.
t9. 570BC. Switch Ravenna to barracks, will rush FP next turn. Bought Feud from Aztecs for 109gold and 37gpt. We have 0 gold in treasury and +1running treasury
T10. 550BC. Schnappsville is founded. Rushed FP in Ravenna. Hired tax man in Neapolis to prevent rioting. We are low on money. But i hope once we revolt to republic situation will get better money wise. Plus i believe our GAs are not far away. As soon as we can collect around 10 horses and couple of Legions in single stuck attack Russia.
Research isn't possible right now but i hope it will get better. Revolt next turn after settler in Rome is build. I also switched few builds to workers to be completed next turn and cities will regrow during the anarchy tiem
I suggest to place it 4SW from rome in jungle...
Not the best location but very low corruption is what we need and there is at least a forest to place citizen on for faster barraks built.
Post-turn: there is an egyptian settler pair i was herding. Just keep doing that don't let them to settle to far into our land. SIngle scientist is hired in Heliopolis to research towards Invention. Keep it there during anarchy times. We need to build army to generate our GAs and build markets first followed by libraries to steam our research towards MT during and after GA is over. I envision we will by Mono and chivalry from AIs. Keep building barracks and military units only until we enter GAs. Keep building settlers in Veii. You should figure out a nice settler factory after we switch to republic. Convert Rome to military build facilities. Hook up wines and forward we go. Keep squeezing workers once in a while. Do not afraid to raze lux slider in Republic. But with 3 luxes we should do okay for quite some time.
Suggest to settle on blue dot then on green. Once done our core will be completed but keep building settlers. We might want to raze and replace russian cities to prevent flip risks.
Russians and Celts are busy killing each other so hopefully by the time we have army they won't have many units against us. We might want to attack russia even earlier depending on how situation goes. If we see Celts are overwhelming russia we should also start just to grab those cities around our Forbidden Palace city. We don't have to kill russia, we just want to extend our core around FP city. Egypt could be next target after Russia just to grab Gems they have.
Suggestions from the rest of the team are required
Similar threads
