Turkish security assault protesters. In Washington.

demiurgenext said:
Because he's surrounded by his own security forces. You can see several police cars with their lights flashing across the road. And you can see several US police in the video of the attack itself - they are clearly the ones who broke it up.

Regardless, if you think the appropriate thing to do is attack the protesters, who at that point in time clearly weren't any threat to President Little Dick, you have a pretty warped moral code. You are literally saying it's worth beating them up instead of inconveniencing a government official.

Here's an idea - call for more police. Or make different arrangements. LOTS of ways this could end without violence.
Click to expand...

to be clear
I do NOT agree with any of the violence used by the Turkish security.
As I said in my post:
Erdogan should have waited in his car until the situation was cleared.
 
Ryika said:
Oh, there are indeed two sides to the issue.

There's one side that says it was attacked while protesting peacefully.

And there's the other side that says it had good reasons to attack peaceful protesters.
Click to expand...
From the Washington Post this morning:

The Turkish Embassy released a statement Wednesday that made no mention of any role played by the presidential guards but said that a group of Turkish-American citizens who had gathered to greet Erdogan "responded in self-defense" to a "provocative demonstration."
Click to expand...

The same article says that Senators Claire McCaskill and John McCain have called for Turkey's ambassador to be expelled from the country. I doubt that will lead anywhere, but at least somebody in Congress is making a stink. It also says two of Erdogan's security men were arrested at the scene, which I didn't know, and released.
 
This technically counts as both an act of terrorism and an act of war. The US government can choose to ignore it and sweep this under the rug but can easily become a media storm that convinces more moderate republicans to side with Democrats. The best course of action is to kick Turkey out of NATO and declare Erdogan a persona non grata. However, it is also legally justified to invade Turkey after kicking them out of NATO but that is undesirable.
 
McCain and Dianne Feinstein issued a joint statement to Erdogan condemning the incident and mentioning a previous attack from his security last year.

At least people are actually speaking out now compared to last year when little was said over the incident.

It was a very strongly worded statement too.

I think Erdogan does this because it makes him look strong in Turkey despite Turkey's image abroad.

During the commemoration of the Armenian genocide last year Turkey sent planes over New York with Turkish slogans and the Turkish flag.

On the surface this looks absurd because the average New Yorker probably was unaware of the whole thing and would not understand the signifance of the messages.

But if Erdogan can show his supporters that planes were spreading this message over New York it makes him look strong.

It's like how Turkey invests all this drama and money over the Armenian genocide while if say, Turkey decided to recognize a genocide of the Cherokee or Lakota by the US government it would probably be met by a few raised eyebrows and editorials with little official outcry from Americans.
 
warpus said:
Yep, this explains why Putin does a lot of the stuff he does as well
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Very likely, yet Russia is a potential antagonist to the US, while Turkey is at best a regional power. TLDR: it cannot even afford to play this kind of (rotten) game.
That said, Erdo is not the problem, in reality; it is just that his recklessness has made headlines, while previous (and worse) acts by Turkey did not.
The internet is a new parameter too, i suppose, or at least large web-based media.
 
In the TWC forum, someone noted that this news bit is circulated so that it may "bring down Turkey's reputation".
As they say in the Iron Islands: what is dead may never die :jesus:
 
NovaKart said:
It's not the first time the Sultan's thugs have attacked protestors in America. I'd like to see America do the same as Germany and investigate using Jordan as an alternative to Incirlik and scale back relations with Turkey.
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Agreed. I think Turkey is starting to forget who their friends are and what their place in the world is. The rest of NATO needs to find a way to remind Turkey that we may be allies with them now, but alliances can change. Sadly, I don't think Turkey will get that message until they pick a fight with someone thinking NATO will back them up, only to find the European members of NATO and the US sitting back and not lifting a finger to help them out.
 
Vulgarity edited out.
The official response has altogether been tepid. There'd be an absolute firestorm if something like this would happen in Europe right now. Wasn't Trump supposed to put his own country first?

Moderator Action: Swearing is inappropriate on CFC. Please remember this for the future. - Vincour
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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Hrothbern said:
Just look at the vid

And see how few USA police officers are there, in the line of sight, at the moment Erdogan wants to step out of his car.
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am not into watching videos ; when you can surf only in web cafes they are a waste of time . It was widely available on TV , now that the best footage was taken by a Turkish TV guy anyhow . Let me stick to the line of argument that what was to transpire was agreed beforehand . Saving face of the Goverment so that it can keep ruling this country in the best interests of the West and further damage the reputation of the country so that anyone concerned will be like scared by what could actually happen . Hence nobody in the West really wants to hear that wargames do not care or plan for friendly PR in "hostile" countries .


regular r16 rant :

it keeps on coming down on us poor Turks . Everybody knows Kurds will have their state as befits their having invented fire and starting everything related Civilization wise and us filthy robbers doing all sorts of injustices to everyone since the Neanderthals . One needs to relax ? To that end ı start on a magazine and read about the 30 years of the F-16 ops in Turkey . One of the most "revered" forces in the world , those F-16 units have lost much experienced people , one can almost sniff , through the "unjust" stuff that happened since last year . Yeah , one can not but fail to notice the "cross" on the shield of that horseman depicted on the fin of that plane , in this most Muslim New Turkey . Might have happened in the past , who knows , through the flexibility of mind that characterizes borderlands . Though such detailed history interest immediately fails when it comes to the names . The main base of the Congregation was renamed back to its original , Mürted . Which doesn't mean coward in Mongolian . Or maybe it does , but the more relevant thing is apostate ; with the base built on the location of the 1402 Battle of Ankara . With Ottomans betrayed by the potentates of Anatolia but the Serbians fighting to the death against the forces of Tamarlane / Timur . No doubt because they were a long way to home . ı looked it up in the dictionary , too ...


you see , nobody can much stand the New Turkey as it is and everybody will agree to bring back the Congregation to rule whatever ashes remain of this country after the doom . So every PR works to keep the Congregation "fresh" . As moderate Muslims who should not be tarred by such words as apostasy in no way ... Take this NBA player who suddenly discovered the treachery of Ankara when he went to Romania and learned his passport was declared void ! And this reported by foreign news agencies as a result of political differences . This guy , immediately after the coup attempt , with a few of the 250 killed not yet buried , was online to say stuff against the victorious A-K-P . His family living here begged him not to and give up and come back from the grips of the Congregation . He refused , called his family names . His father refused him as his son . The guy accepted wholeheartedly and declared himself as the son of the spiritual leader of the Congregation , even asking to receive his hallowed surname instead . As this was wholly benefitting the narrative , his citizenship was revoked . So , he now goes to some country and expects he will use his passport ? But then it's good PR ...
 
Commodore said:
Agreed. I think Turkey is starting to forget who their friends are and what their place in the world is. The rest of NATO needs to find a way to remind Turkey that we may be allies with them now, but alliances can change. Sadly, I don't think Turkey will get that message until they pick a fight with someone thinking NATO will back them up, only to find the European members of NATO and the US sitting back and not lifting a finger to help them out.
Click to expand...

the now dead Turkish Air Force sent up a Phantom to be shot down and use Article 5 to invade Syria . But only because of issues of heroism neither Ankara or the rest of NATO could manage to sent the other side first and follow at a safe distance . Back in 2012 . The failure of which induced Iran to deploy ground troops and the result gets your President to be a Muslim lover or something , just yesterday in Riyad . The proposition is a fact since 1987 or something when NATO removed nuclear cover for Turkey and see how much good / bad that has been doing . But then we will always follow our friends to a full scale fight , especially if they are fighting ... us !
 
According to turkey, the guards were only defending themselves.
 
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