UA Elimination Thread

[TM Moot]

Manifest Destiny (America) (9)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (12)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (11)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (13)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (13)
Population Growth (India) (10)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Barbary Corsairs (Ottomans) (0) -2
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (13) +1
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (14)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

(not sure about the OP criteria btw)

extra long powerful GA's, yes please
bye bye next to useless corsairs..

 

[Sir Lunchalot]

Manifest Destiny (America) (8) -2
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (13) +1
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (11)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (13)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (13)
Population Growth (India) (10)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Barbary Corsairs (Ottomans) (0)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (13)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (14)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

Manifest Destiny: If the map size is standard or smaller the +1 sight is more or less useless. I don´t have to buy tiles very often, so this part of the trait is also not really worthy.

Trade Caravans: Usually having a mainly trade-route based economy and end up with insane gpt values when playing the arabs. The synergy with their UB is also a plus factor.

 

[civnoob13]

So we are voting on their synergy with the civ and the difference they make to a game rather than their power?

Manifest Destiny (America) (8) -2
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (13) +1
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (11)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (13)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14) +1
Population Growth (India) (10)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (13)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12) -2
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

Rome's UA is very dull IMHO. I rarely notice much of a difference to a game. The Inca's UA is great fun. You really notice the difference it makes, especially during early scouting and when at war. The economic benefit is also very noticeable when building roads. It also has great synergy with The Incas because of their hilly terrain they had. The hill movement bonus also has good synergy with their UI.

 

[ShahJahanII]

Manifest Destiny (America) (8) -2
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (13) +1
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (11)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (13)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (13)
Population Growth (India) (10)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Barbary Corsairs (Ottomans) (0)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (13)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (14)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

Manifest Destiny: If the map size is standard or smaller the +1 sight is more or less useless. I don´t have to buy tiles very often, so this part of the trait is also not really worthy.

Trade Caravans: Usually having a mainly trade-route based economy and end up with insane gpt values when playing the arabs. The synergy with their UB is also a plus factor.

Let me just say, the Inca's are better with trade routes than the Arabs.
By saving money on those roads you save more gold than you would with the Arabs.
The double Oil is pretty useful though.

 

[Vladesch]

Manifest Destiny (America) (8)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11) -2
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (11)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (13)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11) +1
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (13)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

Nothing competes with the megacity empire later on in the game with India. (Provided you can last it out will then)
Arabia's trade caravan's are a drop in the bucket.

 

[Maniac]

Manifest Destiny (America) (6) -2
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (11)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (13)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (14) +1
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

Persia +1: I like the synergy between guns and butter
America -2: extra sight doesn't make much difference in strategy. I can count the number of tiles I buy in a game on one hand.

 

[Poomermon]

Manifest Destiny (America) (6)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9) -2
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (14) +1
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (14)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

Frances UA is just great. It greatly speeds up your early game and it has no opportunity cost. Try it with liberty tree and see how fast you can expand and get more policies at the same time. Frances UUs are mediocre but Ancien Régime alone makes France a top tier civ. Also early game >>>>>> late game.

Denmarks Viking Fury is not that great alone. What makes this civ good is it's UUs and the UA just helps a little along the way.

 

[Raneman]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7) +1
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (14)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (10) -1
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (14)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

MURRCA: If you want to claim resources fast, the combination of both of these is great. With excess gold you can easily plop a city and ninja all the valuable resources in an area.
India: Not useful beyond OCC and it has a disadvantage to it. You know you're balancing your game wrong when you have to give one civ in the game a disadvantage while none of the others have one.

 

[ShahJahanII]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7) +1
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (14)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (10) -1
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (14)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

MURRCA: If you want to claim resources fast, the combination of both of these is great. With excess gold you can easily plop a city and ninja all the valuable resources in an area.
India: Not useful beyond OCC and it has a disadvantage to it. You know you're balancing your game wrong when you have to give one civ in the game a disadvantage while none of the others have one.

a) that is minus 2 points
b) how could you possibly mark down India's ability at this stage?

 

[Maniac]

India: Not useful beyond OCC and it has a disadvantage to it. You know you're balancing your game wrong when you have to give one civ in the game a disadvantage while none of the others have one.

IMO the most interesting civs, whose playstyles are changed the most, are those who have both advantages and penalties. I mean, would you judge the factions in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri and the civs in Fall from Heaven 2 badly because they all have both advantages and penalties?

 

[ShahJahanII]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7) +1
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (12)
Ancien Régime (France) (14)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (10) -1
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (14)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

MURRCA: If you want to claim resources fast, the combination of both of these is great. With excess gold you can easily plop a city and ninja all the valuable resources in an area.
India: Not useful beyond OCC and it has a disadvantage to it. You know you're balancing your game wrong when you have to give one civ in the game a disadvantage while none of the others have one.

This "disadvantage" you speak of breaks even when the city population reaches 6+.
Unless you mindlessly expand like crazy, it is indeed an advantage.

 

[Hasire]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (10)
Ancien Régime (France) (14)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (14)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)
India's UA is amazing for happiness.
I rarely ever hard build wonders.

 

[Sir Lunchalot]

Let me just say, the Inca's are better with trade routes than the Arabs.
By saving money on those roads you save more gold than you would with the Arabs.
The double Oil is pretty useful though.

Yeah, maybe.... But I don´t have any DLCs

 

[basta]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (15)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (8)
Ancien Régime (France) (14)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (14)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (14)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)
India's UA is amazing for happiness.
I rarely ever hard build wonders.

Egypt is just a puppet/annex disaster waiting to happen and needs a serious military retooling.
Babylon's early tech boost can be extremely powerful.

 

[Keejus]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (10)
Ancien Régime (France) (14)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (12)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (15)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (12)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

Golden Ages rock, and with the proper focus, Darius never has to not be in a Golden Age by the medieval era

Japan is the only civ that gets exactly no non-military boosts whatsoever. Sure, it's powerful, but having units run around with <5 HP is generally a bad idea

 

[Blue Oyster]

removed post, in 5 words

 

[comatosedragon]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (10)
Ancien Régime (France) (14)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (13) +1 *
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (15)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (10)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (10) -2 *
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

<<<Second day, Second Vote>>>


* With Japan you can effectively field an army of 2/3 size or better, leaving production for other projects. Also can pick up an extra goodie hut or Barbarian camp or two in the early game.
* The extra gold you get from barbarians as Songhai in negligible at best, and defending embarked units is just as easy in most situations with careful planning.

 

[NwabudikeMorgan]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (10)
Ancien Régime (France) (15) +1
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (13)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (15)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (8) -2
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (10)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

 

[civnoob13]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (14)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (14)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (10)
Ancien Régime (France) (15) +1
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (13)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (15)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (8) -2
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (10)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

Remember to give reasons for you answers. Also, highlight the changes you make either in bold or red for voting down and green for voting up to make it easier to see.

 

[ShahJahanII]

Manifest Destiny (America) (7)
Trade Caravans (Arabia) (11)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (12)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (15)
Art of War (China) (12)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (10)
Ancien Régime (France) (15)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (13)
Hellenic League (Greece) (12)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (14)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (14)
Bushido (Japan) (13)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Mongol Terror (Mongolia) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (15)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (8)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (12)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (10)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (10)
Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) (12)

Just not enough culture per kill.
Again, a civ that excels at research excels at everything.