UEFA Cup, 2007-08

[BCLG100]

Apparantly theres 100,000 glaswegians descending on me tomorrow, thank christ im away from Eastlands.

 

[Sofista]

OT: is "glaswegian" the correct word?

 

[BCLG100]

What else would i call them? They're from Glasgow.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

OT: is "glaswegian" the correct word?

It should have a capital "G", and thus be "Glaswegian", but, yes, the correct term for a denizen of the Empire's Second City is indeed Glaswegian. (And not "Brummie".)

 

[Pangur Bán]

Excitement! Under an hour! I don't know where I stand anymore. I don't want Rangers fans to be happy, but I should really support all Scottish sides, shouldn't I?

I really don't know how this will go. I wonder if Rangers' tactics can work against Zenit, as like most Russian and Ukrainian sides, their biggest strength is intelligence and guile, exactly what's needed to undo a team like Rangers. Additionally, ex-managers of clubs tend to have excellent records against their old clubs. I've noticed that for years. On the other hand, Zenit might be overconfident and Rangers might get some chances. I fancy Zenit. If they score early, they could win very comfortably. If they do not, Rangers have a big chance to cause an upset.

Off to watch now!

 

[BCLG100]

Apparantly theres 100,000 glaswegians descending on me tomorrow, thank christ im away from Eastlands.

**** me, was just in the centre of town, there seem to be 100k within about a square mile, was like being at a music festival it was so busy!

 

[BCLG100]

Fairly easy win for Zenit in the end, as per normal Rangers european football they rarely threatened.

 

[Sofista]

Fairly easy, you say? At one point I seriously thought the game would once again reach the penalties...

 

[BCLG100]

Yeah but Rangers were hardly an attacking force and it was only a matter of time before zenits play overwhelmed the Rangers defence.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Fairly easy win for Zenit in the end, as per normal Rangers european football they rarely threatened.

It certainly wasn't easy for them, last minute of injury time counter attacking goal aside, Rangers were in it the whole game and were actually more comfortable than - say - in their game in Bremen or Florence. Ball in the box at the start of injury time ... they had three players in front of a slow ball with a clear path into the net. They got confused and didn't take it, but if they had Zenit wouldn't have won. Anyways, I only recall three clear cut chances for Zenit, two of which they scored, and two for Rangers. Zenit dominated possession, but in that they are no different from any other team Rangers played, including the Montenegran team they played 18 games ago!

Zenit deserved to win though. Please remember they had to play Villareal and Marseilles and their group games during their pre-season when they were not fully fit, and then scored 9 goals against Bayern Munich and Leverkusen, both of whom they outclassed. They edged the final, which usually isn't enough to beat Rangers, but Rangers' incomparably negative game depends on them taking a few clear cut chances (like Boavista a few years ago), which they failed to. They had conspicuously more quality, were intelligent, and defended very very well.

Credit to Rangers though. Negative football? Indeed. But how did Italy dominate the 1990s? Sure, those teams had more quality, but their lesson stands. Rangers scored only 5 goals on the path to the final, the lowest ever for a finalist ... compare with Celtic's 27 goals in 2003. However, and foreigners don't realise it, Rangers 'team is probably the weakest they've had since the 1980s, and has forced them to play like this. Prolly only Cuellar, Ferguson and Whittaker would have got into the Rangers team of 5 years ago, and few more would get into the current Celtic team. So, after some reflection, all credit to them ... you do what you can with what you've got. Panathinaikos, Bremen, Sporting and Fiorentina and the others can all take comfort in their attacking game while watching Rangers in the final. As can Celtic if they, as they might, lose the Championship to them.

 

[Sofista]

Indeed, once down they had to attack, and Rangers simply could not deliver there. Had Zenit not managed to bring an attacking scheme to fruition (and there had been none before, so tight did the Scot defence was), I meant, Rangers didn't look that overwhelmed. After the first goal Zenit could profit from their opponents' necessity to score and played like the talented team they are.

@Calgacus: sure I remember Italian teams in the 90's, when Sacchi and Capello's Milan won and entertained the world with the team known as the "Dutchmen's Milan" (Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkaard; notice how many of Sacchi's boys today have become managers themselves). Or Lippi's Juventus, which had Baggio and Del Piero and would soon attract Zidane. Yes, yes, the lesson stuck. Thanks for the memories in this so far dry year.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Indeed, once down they had to attack, and Rangers simply could not deliver there. Had Zenit not managed to bring an attacking scheme to fruition (and there had been none before, so tight did the Scot defence was), I meant, Rangers didn't look that overwhelmed. After the first goal Zenit could profit from their opponents' necessity to score and played like the talented team they are.

@Calgacus: sure I remember Italian teams in the 90's, when Sacchi and Capello's Milan won and entertained the world with the team known as the "Dutchmen's Milan" (Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkaard; notice how many of Sacchi's boys today have become managers themselves). Or Lippi's Juventus, which had Baggio and Del Piero and would soon attract Zidane. Yes, yes, the lesson stuck. Thanks for the memories in this so far dry year.

Yes, there was entertainment too. Football culture here was different then, but I think most people here always dreaded seeing Italian teams, club or national, in any final, as you knew you were unlikely to see many goals and you KNEW that if the Italian team got one goal, entertainment would die and the match was effectively won. This was esp. the way it was in the mid-to-late 1990s. Success of Italian football in the 1990s was very much broader than AC Milan and Juventus, and the lesson Italian football teaches and has taught other parts of Europe ... good defense trumps good attack 9 times out of 10. Barcelona go out of Europe most years because of this, even though they clearly have the best attacking players by a distance. Apparently all the top clubs in Europe have learned this but them. Man Utd might try to pretend they are a flair attacking side against Wigan and Sunderland, but they seemed to like defense more when they
played Roma and Barcelona. I wonder why ...

 

[holy king]

However, and foreigners don't realise it, Rangers 'team is probably the weakest they've had since the 1980s, and has forced them to play like this. Prolly only Cuellar, Ferguson and Whittaker would have got into the Rangers team of 5 years ago, and few more would get into the current Celtic team. So, after some reflection, all credit to them ... you do what you can with what you've got.

it's a big part of a good managers job to not let this situation occur in the first place though...

 

[Pangur Bán]

it's a big part of a good managers job to not let this situation occur in the first place though...

Well, not really unless the manager has a field of money trees. Rangers are a poor club these days because of all the money Advocaat wasted and, in relative terms, the TV money going into Europe's big leagues has opened a gulf between clubs in small countries and those in big ones. Anyways, in this example, Walter Smith only came in last year and largely had to work with the team he inherited, adding a few bargain journeymen, a couple on loan and pinching some from the small Scottish teams.

 

[Sofista]

Yes, there was entertainment too. Football culture here was different then, but I think most people here always dreaded seeing Italian teams, club or national, in any final, as you knew you were unlikely to see many goals and you KNEW that if the Italian team got one goal, entertainment would die and the match was effectively won. This was esp. the way it was in the mid-to-late 1990s. Success of Italian football in the 1990s was very much broader than AC Milan and Juventus,

You talked about Italy dominating the 90's... considering the national team won nothing in that decade - although the 1994 final lost on penalties was still a good result - I couldn't guess to what but Milan and Juve's success could you refer to. But then I recalled that also Inter and Parma won a couple of UEFAs.
The popular rap is indeed persuaded that Italian football=boring defensive football... but are the Rangers the example you propose? Because, see, theoretically speaking what the Rangers played is negative football, where you have no result to defend but play to stall time anyway. Then there's the traditional Italian battle plan, which is to score and then to defend the result. This is loosely known as catenaccio ("locket"; it used to be a definite tactic, but colloquially it refers to any tactic aimed at keeping a favorable result as it is). Want to see a proper Italian tactic applied this round of cups, see how Liverpool eliminated Arsenal in the CL.
And then, well, just who guarantees many goals? Popular opinion is negative, but it's not like expectations rose when Rangers got to the final. And it was confirmed when it became clear that they tried once again to drag the game to the penalties.

and the lesson Italian football teaches and has taught other parts of Europe ... good defense trumps good attack 9 times out of 10. Barcelona go out of Europe most years because of this, even though they clearly have the best attacking players by a distance. Apparently all the top clubs in Europe have learned this but them. Man Utd might try to pretend they are a flair attacking side against Wigan and Sunderland, but they seemed to like defense more when they
played Roma and Barcelona. I wonder why ...

"Score, then defend" is just a philosophy, and applied and applies everywhere; it's just that Italy, being the most successful expounder of it, gets identified with it, no matter what. The basis is indeed, that once things go your way you should then proceed to eliminate from football all its unpredictability - put a "locket" on the game, then wait until you can bring it home. The FA apparently has decided that this is what they want, and the FAI followed.