UK 'aided CIA' with torture flights

[Uiler]

It is phrase for sensational headline.

I first took it as a joke because it sounds that the torturing happens during flight like "torture cruises". Which is like that they are torturing them during cruising. Also the tortures are allegations not necessarily actual happenings and even when I believe that such thing happened it didn't necessarily happen with all the flights. Now the headline make it sound like CIA is grabbing people from different countries with consent of UK just to torture them during flight.

Of course I can see past that point and I said it half-jokingly. But it is true that suddenly certain part of media has made familiar such term as "torture flights" like directly pointing out to certain part of CIA normal operational scheme. Even I can say that it is completely biased and even though I like media criticizing those that hold the power which is their job then there are times when they just grab something that sounds cool just to make their stuff to sell some more.

And even though I said this all, I believe UK like many other countries either actively helped CIA or covered their eyes, just like they have always done. There's nothing shocking in there. In some countries the officials make "inquiries" to ask US what those flights were about when everybody probably already knew. But since they became public, people now aware of things must be satisfied by showing that their own politicians care about what CIA and different western governments are doing behind the backs of their own people.

It's needless to say how much against those "western values" that most of us keep granted these kind of operations are. Maybe the public needs these kind of screaming headlines otherwise they won't understand what is going on. After all most people live like zombies fed with too much day-time TV.

It's nothing but Big Brother all the way.

It is sensational, but as I point out it is also the most descriptive term for what is alleged. The allegations *are* that as part of normal CIA operations the UK and other countries are allowing the US to transfer prisoners to places where they are tortured. The torture is not incidental to the allegations. It is the heaviest focus. The phrase is sensational because the claims are sensational. The term does not give a false impression of what the US is being accused of. In fact by using something like "CIA renditions" you could be accused of actually hiding the true extent of what it is being claimed. "Genocide" is also a sensational term. It doesn't mean it is not appropriate to use it in situations where races are being targeted for extermination on a large scale. "Sudan murders" does not really give you the full information about what is being alleged. In fact you could be accused of trying to downplay the seriousness of the allegations by using "Sudan murders" instead of "Sudan genocide". "Torture flights" vs "CIA renditions" is not as extreme as that but the point still stands. The term "torture flights" is in fact an exact description of what the US is being accused of. It is not exaggerating the allegations in any way.

It seems to me that the people who have problems with this term - your real beef should be with the original allegations and whether *they* are exaggerating the situation. Because "torture flights" is simply describing exactly what the allegations allege. It's not adding anything which is not already there in the accusations.

A proper example of inappropriate sensationalisation if the arrests of two friends caught molesting young girls is accompanied by the headline "Pedophile ring cracked". No the arrest is about two guys who got caught molesting girls. Did the police say anything about a pedophile ring? Maybe if you really stretch it you could call two friends with no connections to other pedophiles a pedophile ring. But in this situation do the accusations from authorities include systematic torture - yes and we're talking about real bone breaking torture here. Do they include allegations that this is normal CIA practise. Yes. Do they include the substantial use of planes. Yes. Ergo, "torture flights".

 

[C~G]

It seems to me that the people who have problems with this term - your real beef should be with the original allegations and whether *they* are exaggerating the situation. Because "torture flights" is simply describing exactly what the allegations allege. It's not adding anything which is not already there in the accusations.

We are playing with words Uiler really, I think we both agree about the subject. My main focus was first just humorous because I thought there was certain sensationalism in the headline. But in all seriousness this what we are doing now is just semantics.

yes and we're talking about real bone breaking torture here. Do they include allegations that this is normal CIA practise. Yes. Do they include the substantial use of planes. Yes. Ergo, "torture flights".

Yeah...
Though main point what I was trying to make in the second post was that maybe the general public needs such headlines because otherwise they will ignore them. You see, I'm worried about it.
After all everything in ads nowadays isn't anymore even "super" but "hyper". So I guess turning "murders" into "genocide" and "renditions" into "torture flights" just makes people see them from all the other stuff. If the headline would have been "CIA renditions" I still would have known what it is about and read the article. But that's just me, not your average-Joe.

This is classical 1984-stuff really. With newspeak and all.
Reality is that nobody cares. For some people they are news which makes them shocked (like this kind of thing hasn't ever been happening before) and gives some talk about in the workplace (or in here ) for few days then they forget the whole issue and for some others these kinds of things aren't any news even.
The result: Nobody does a thing and world keeps turning around same way it has always done. Nothing changes.

With no offence, forget it, we are just two inviduals splitting hairs here.

“Mr Ness, everybody knows where the booze is. The problem isn’t finding it – it’s who wants to cross Capone.”

 

[Moss]

So the United States shouldn't be trying to capture terrorists or other criminals?

And other countries shouldn't allow the movement of such prisoners by US authorities because it somehow does what...?

I don't get it...

 

[Xenocrates]

Since some of you don't get why this is a legitimate thread:

On the thirteenth day of confinement, Mr El-Masri commenced a hunger strike, which continued until his departure from Macedonia. After 23 days of detention, Mr El-Masri was videotaped, blindfolded, and transported by vehicle to an airport.
95. There, he was beaten, stripped naked, and thrown to the ground. A hard object was forced into his anus. When his blindfold was removed, he saw seven or eight men, dressed in black and hooded. He was placed in a diaper and sweatsuit, blindfolded, shackled, and hurried to a plane, where he was chained spreadeagled to the floor. He was injected with drugs and flown to Baghdad, then on to Kabul, Afghanistan, an itinerary that is confirmed by public flight records. At some point prior to his departure, an exit stamp was placed in his passport, confirming that he left Macedonia on January 23, 2004.
96. Upon arrival in Kabul, Mr El-Masri was kicked and beaten and left in a filthy cell. There he would be detained for more than four months. He was interrogated several times in Arabic about his alleged ties to 9/11 conspirators Muhammed Atta and Ramzi Bin Al-Shibh and to other alleged extremists based in Germany. American officials participated in his interrogations. All of his requests to meet with a representative of the German government were refused.
97. In March, Mr El-Masri and several other inmates commenced a hunger strike. After nearly four weeks without food, Mr El-Masri was brought to meet with two American officials. One of the Americans confirmed Mr El-Masri’s innocence, but insisted that only officials in Washington, D.C. could authorize his release. Subsequent media reports confirm that senior officials in Washington, including the CIA Director Tenet, were informed long before Mr El-Masri’s release that the United States had detained an innocent man. Mr El-Masri continued his hunger strike. On the evening of April 10, Mr El-Masri was dragged from his room by hooded men and force-fed through a nasal tube.

From the official council of Europe report. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_06_06_renditions_draft.pdf

Remember that these people have no recourse to law and haven't been charged with anything. Some of them are totally innocent. Is this BS or did it really happen? It happened. The questioning of this victim of the CIA has proved that it is. This is the guy that was refused legal redress in the US courts recently.