UKIP go from strength to strength

[gay_Aleks]

What about having insecurity cameras everywhere and the government now using their Internet spies to snoop on everyone?

They're just following the current fashion set by America.

 

[Borachio]

The UK is possibly the most surveilled* (is that a word? surveyed?) country in the world.

One camera for every 11 people or something. One and half times the number of cameras in China.

(Here's a nice out of date link, for you.)

The current trend is to put them in old people's care and nursing homes. I think this is a good thing for both the residents and staff.

But if people are bothering to spy on me, let me tell them all now: you're wasting your time!

* Apparently it is.

 

[Takhisis]

The cameras aren't there because of terrorism, there to prevent muggings and so-called petty crime. I didn't notice any great campaign to dismantle cameras in 1998-2001 when the perceived terrorist threat was low in the UK.

Of course not, the English voted in Blair just because he was a Tory from another party.

The UK is possibly the most surveilled* (is that a word? surveyed?) country in the world.

One camera for every 11 people or something. One and half times the number of cameras in China.

(Here's a nice out of date link, for you.)

Mein Gott! Das ist worse than the Stasi!

 

[Quackers]

Jogger "accidentally" runs into the Prime Minister.

He looks like a far lefty but good on the lad. Cameron needed a thump.

In other news: David Cameron refuses to wear "this is what a feminist looks like" t-shirt.

I reckon DC has the right idea here. Mainstream feminism is one of the most prominent illiberal force nowadays. They're doing their best to censor and ban things they don't like. Even if that wasn't true, Clegg/Miliband look like absolute saps in that t-shirt. DC 1, Cleggiband 0.

 

[Borachio]

Support for Ukip has surged to a record high following the surprise attempt by Brussels to levy a £1.7bn “surcharge” on Britain, a ComRes survey for the Independent reveals today.

The results are a major fillip for the anti-European Union party which is bidding to capture its second Commons seat next month and has high hopes of securing the election this week of its first Police and Crime Commissioner.

The poll also contains dire news for Labour, which has fallen to its lowest level of support since Ed Miliband became the party’s leader.

It puts Ukip on 19 per cent, a jump of four points on last month and one point above its previous record support in June.

The Conservatives are up one point to 30 per cent to bring them level with Labour, which has slumped by five points amid growing criticism of Mr Miliband’s leadership.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-huge-surge-in-support-for-ukip-after-17bn-eu-funding-row-according-to-new-poll-9821889.html

 

[Quackers]

Latest YouGov has CON & LAB level pegging as well. CON 32% (-1) LAB 32% (-1) UKIP 18% (+2) LD 8% (=)

Conservatives are clawing back at Labour's lead. I doubt either of them will open up a significant gap to gain an overall majority in 2015. If UKIP run these type of numbers into the General Election we may see double digit seats. I expect to see a hung-parliament next election. Still with six months to go, everything can change.

 

[PhroX]

The UK is possibly the most surveilled* (is that a word? surveyed?) country in the world.

One camera for every 11 people or something. One and half times the number of cameras in China.

(Here's a nice out of date link, for you.)

The current trend is to put them in old people's care and nursing homes. I think this is a good thing for both the residents and staff.

But if people are bothering to spy on me, let me tell them all now: you're wasting your time!

* Apparently it is.

At least when I last checked (a couple of years ago), the thing about CCTV is Britain is that, the majority of the time, it's not the government watching us. The cameras belong to and are run by private individuals and corporations who want to protect themselves. It's not "the government is watching you" but "if you go onto someone's property, they're probably watching you".

The only widespread "govermnent" opereated CCTV use is on London public transport, (and in that case, I suspect the vast majority of people who used the tube/buses before and after the widespread use of such cameras would consider them a very good thing...)

 

[filli_noctus]

Conservatives are clawing back at Labour's lead. I doubt either of them will open up a significant gap to gain an overall majority in 2015. If UKIP run these type of numbers into the General Election we may see double digit seats. I expect to see a hung-parliament next election. Still with six months to go, everything can change.

There's a terrifying thought.

If I may I digress for a moment, what are your thoughts on the Green's prospects? They're being more vocal in the media than they have in recent election cycles (true it is mostly complaining about the attention UKIP are getting) and I've had several friends of mine either state they're intending to vote Green or even joining the party - some of them I wouldn't have considered particularly political.

At the moment it seems to be mostly former Lib Dem supporters disillusioned by their performance in the coalition but with Ed Miliband being quite unpopular there could well be some Labour defectors soon.

 

[Quackers]

There's a terrifying thought.

If I may I digress for a moment, what are your thoughts on the Green's prospects? They're being more vocal in the media than they have in recent election cycles (true it is mostly complaining about the attention UKIP are getting) and I've had several friends of mine either state they're intending to vote Green or even joining the party - some of them I wouldn't have considered particularly political.

At the moment it seems to be mostly former Lib Dem supporters disillusioned by their performance in the coalition but with Ed Miliband being quite unpopular there could well be some Labour defectors soon.

I don't see any hope for the Greens. Caroline Lucas' seat is in grave danger down in Brighton. The Green Party are the biggest proponents of (a) mass immigration and (b) the EU (albiet, the greens dislike how the EU operates at present and wish to change that by remaining in the EU); two unpopular policies for the British electorate. I think many lefties remember the burn the LDs delivered when they backed out of their student loans promise and joined the tories, I reckon this demographic won't be fooled by an outsider again and will flock back to Labour.

So they run against popular opinion, have proven themselves to be inept when in office and have spent lots of airtime whinging about UKIP's success. Any talk of a "Green surge" is in hope at this stage.

 

[Quackers]

Like two student lads desperate to get laid by calling themselves feminists.

 

[Arakhor]

There never has been any such thing as 'mass immigration', at least not since the 1950s and the Government's explicit attempts to get Commonwealth citizens to move over here.

And please, for the sake of rational thread discussion, please bring some measure of statistics before you start speaking for the entire British electorate, in whatever capacity.

 

[Quackers]

There never has been any such thing as 'mass immigration', at least not since the 1950s and the Government's explicit attempts to get Commonwealth citizens to move over here.

You are hugely misinformed
Conservative estimates place it at 3m, the higher estimates put it at 4m. That is over a peroid of 13 years, primarily accelerated after 2004.

Net migration nearly quadrupled from 48,000 in 1997 to 185,000 in 2003. Once the East Europeans had been granted free movement in 2004 it peaked at 320,000 in the year ending June 2005. Net foreign migration between 1997 and 2010 totalled nearly 4 million, two thirds of it non EU.

Nearly 4 million people NET, in 13 years, it is mass immigration by any measure.

And please, for the sake of rational thread discussion, please bring some measure of statistics before you start speaking for the entire British electorate, in whatever capacity.

Immigration is within the top three concerns held by the British public for several years now. The EU is more cyclical. I imagine EU concern is greater now since our "bill" came in...

 

[Kyriakos]

Like two student lads desperate to get laid by calling themselves feminists.

That looks horrible.

You know, England used to be notably different than 'Merica in the near past.
Seems like that was eclipsed by now.

 

[Arakhor]

Nearly 4 million people NET, in 13 years, it is mass immigration by any measure.

If we were Denmark, maybe, but the UK has a population of around 60 million people. Your quoted number indicates that less than 7% of the population are immigrants.

Anyone can quote scary numbers, but numbers by themselves are meaningless, unless set in their proper context. What has been our birth to death rate since the millennium? How many people have emigrated? How many of those immigrants have actually left the UK again?

 

[GinandTonic]

I don't see any hope for the Greens. Caroline Lucas' seat is in grave danger down in Brighton. The Green Party are the biggest proponents of (a) mass immigration and (b) the EU (albiet, the greens dislike how the EU operates at present and wish to change that by remaining in the EU); two unpopular policies for the British electorate. I think many lefties remember the burn the LDs delivered when they backed out of their student loans promise and joined the tories, I reckon this demographic won't be fooled by an outsider again and will flock back to Labour.

So they run against popular opinion, have proven themselves to be inept when in office and have spent lots of airtime whinging about UKIP's success. Any talk of a "Green surge" is in hope at this stage.

Really? I was under the impression the greens were under pressure on the council but the Lucas was in poll position for the constituency. The people of Brighton continuing their tradition of haring the council whoever is in charge. Hell even Lucas has been swinging for the council.

 

[Truronian]

Really? I was under the impression the greens were under pressure on the council but the Lucas was in poll position for the constituency. The people of Brighton continuing their tradition of haring the council whoever is in charge. Hell even Lucas has been swinging for the council.

Yeah. They have apparently not done a great job with their council seats, but Lucas remains popular.

 

[Borachio]

If we were Denmark, maybe, but the UK has a population of around 60 million people. Your quoted number indicates that less than 7% of the population are immigrants.

Anyone can quote scary numbers, but numbers by themselves are meaningless, unless set in their proper context. What has been our birth to death rate since the millennium? How many people have emigrated? How many of those immigrants have actually left the UK again?

And yet, that's taken account of by the word "net" isn't it?

 

[Quackers]

If we were Denmark, maybe, but the UK has a population of around 60 million people. Your quoted number indicates that less than 7% of the population are immigrants.

Anyone can quote scary numbers, but numbers by themselves are meaningless, unless set in their proper context. What has been our birth to death rate since the millennium? How many people have emigrated? How many of those immigrants have actually left the UK again?

Earlier on in this thread you classed the immigration in the 1950s as "mass immigration", in 1950 the population was 50m.

There never has been any such thing as 'mass immigration', at least not since the 1950s and the Government's explicit attempts to get Commonwealth citizens to move over here.

500,000 immigrants arrived on these shores in the 1950s. So the immigration of the 1950s meant 1% of the population were from overseas.

Now, from 1997-2010 where 4 million people arrived, with a population of 60m, we have 7% of the inhabitants of this country from overseas and you don't call that mass immigration?

Clueless.

 

[Quackers]

Really? I was under the impression the greens were under pressure on the council but the Lucas was in poll position for the constituency. The people of Brighton continuing their tradition of haring the council whoever is in charge. Hell even Lucas has been swinging for the council.

Yeah. They have apparently not done a great job with their council seats, but Lucas remains popular.

My mistake. I thought the acts of the council rightly or wrongly tarnished Lucas as well.
Still, you can look at the Green held council of Brighton and call it a shambles. I saw some hilarious figure the other day that Brighton has among the most environmentally damaging waste disposal system in the country

 

[Quackers]

And yet, that's taken account of by the word "net" isn't it?

Thank you Mr B, spot on.

Arakhor represents the dismissive, snobby attitude many at the political top feel. "Oh, the lower orders are complaining about immigration again, so prejudiced!" *sits snugly in ivory tower*...