Uma Thurman re the Weinstein issue & something to come

[inthesomeday]

Christianity also promises relief from Original Sin by obedience. The difference is judgement day. In Christianity, you will stand before God after your death, and he will see whether you've been a good pawn. Your judgement day is a carrot on a stick. No person will ever reach the status of a "non-sexist".

People will! By opposing sexism. This is a really creative strawman, though, I commend you on your ability to stylize logical fallacies. You set them up and I'm just in awe-- your craftsmanship puts a nice signature on them.

See, in Christianity, "God" is the key to a moral obligation to do X, you're lacking that key and have replaced it with... well, nothing, really. You just hope that you can shame people into thinking they have a moral obligation to act the way you want them to act.

I don't really care how people act in a vacuum, but unfortunately-- and by your own admission-- we live in a world poisoned by systemic hierarchies like sexism, and through inaction, and even sometimes malicious micro-aggression that's "just a joke, bro", people support these systems implicitly and explicitly. I know your gigantic centrist brain is above all this "action" and whatnot, because really feminists are the real sexists, so I can't expect you to support people actually doing things, but the reality is that sexism, and all systemic oppression, follows a clear hierarchy of action, in which the elites who perpetuate it are empowered by the hilarious sexist jokes of their unwitting minions.

I do not belief you have a right to shame people based on your ideological framework,

Shaming somebody for doing something disgusting and harmful is the same thing as doing something disgusting and harmful. Black is white, up is down. I'm the real fascist here. We get it, you're ineffectual and care about nothing. You don't have to keep rubbing it in our faces.

which indeed makes us ideological enemies. But not because I have an ideology that goes counter to yours, no, because I say that you have no claim to the souls of other people. I am the Atheism to your Christianity.

There's no such thing as a soul, but I appreciate the gracious fedora tip.

And rightfully so, because no, we are not talking about people who are "fine with sexism",

If you know for a fact that something exists-- which you do-- and it's not something you try to disarm, or even literally not participate in-- if you are willing to actively participate in it, and defend those who are its most despicable agents-- then you are, in fact, fine with it. If you weren't, you wouldn't support it like that.

we are talking about people who did not do sexist things to other people, we're talking about sexist "attitudes" that they, in your opinion, transfer to their friends by making sexist jokes for example, and having sexist "thoughts".

What is a sexist thing? Are sexist attitudes, thoughts, and jokes not sexist things? Of course not, words are powerless and everything is nothing. I mean listen, if you'd rather steep in meaningless nihilism, that's fine, but then stay out of legitimate discussions about real life problems, because you're just wasting everyone's time. Take a position, for or against sexism. (In reality you already have)

You're right, I dismiss this as nonsense. "Micro-Aggressions" are just another purity test, it basically means: "You have said or done something that wasn't actually an act of aggression, but I want to shame you anyway!"

People's behavior does, in fact, matter, believe it or not. You'll find that to be the case, especially when discussing people with power over others.

Yes, your religion does indeed have a lot of doctrine. This was a very flavorful attempt to justify your own sexism, but I don't buy any of it.

Reverse sexism, eh? We've finally arrived at the heart of it here; again, ignorance as to the meaning of words.

Nobody has claimed that sexism doesn't exist, and nobody has claimed that they're above the ability to participate in it. People deny that not joining your religion and the pursuit of purity that comes with it, equates to participating in sexism.

Broccoli is the real chocolate. Pro-choice are the real anti-choice. Atheism is a religion.

Yeah, and farting contributes to climate change. Don't fart!

Sexism: a biological necessity that you cannot control.

 

[Berzerker]

That is quite the spectacular misreading. Let me just say "nuh uh i didn't" and offer you the chance to clarify it via PM rather than spam the thread up over a miscommunication.

Edit:

VVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Even more misreading and I'm not going to spam up this thread about it.

Trying to change the behaviour of men is the real sexism? We're heading deeper into the bad faith posting zone.

You're the bad faith mastermind.

I have to agree with Valessa

 

[ori]

Moderator Action: Please move on to discuss the topic again without discussing other users, accusing them of being bad faith actors, mysanthropes or resotring to other forms of name calling, neither is in anyway shape or form furthering discussion.

 

[Ryika]

People will! By opposing sexism. This is a really creative strawman, though, I commend you on your ability to stylize logical fallacies. You set them up and I'm just in awe-- your craftsmanship puts a nice signature on them.

Name me 5 men who have achieved the status of non-sexist, and 10 more men who you would believe if they came out and said: "I have achieved purity, I am not sexist anymore." My bet is that you won't be able to name a single one.

Have you already reached the status of non-sexist? And if not, how do you know it's not a carrot on the stick?

but unfortunately-- and by your own admission-- we live in a world poisoned by systemic hierarchies like sexism

No, I did not admit to this. I said sexism exists,not that it is part of a system of hierarchies. Sexism is just that, behavior that discriminates against a person because of their sex. It's neither systemic, nor does it place men above women.

Shaming somebody for doing something disgusting and harmful is the same thing as doing something disgusting and harmful. Black is white, up is down. I'm the real fascist here. We get it, you're ineffectual and care about nothing. You don't have to keep rubbing it in our faces.

No, shaming someone for something that is not actually disgusting and harmful, but instead has just been declared that by your religion, is. It's so interesting how you're so similar to a catholic priest who is like: "I'm not the bad guy for calling out the bad things these two men do in their bedroom, I'm enlightening you! Can you not see the impact this has on our society?!"

What is a sexist thing? Are sexist attitudes, thoughts, and jokes not sexist things? Of course not, words are powerless and everything is nothing. I mean listen, if you'd rather steep in meaningless nihilism, that's fine, but then stay out of legitimate discussions about real life problems, because you're just wasting everyone's time. Take a position, for or against sexism. (In reality you already have)

No, sexist jokes are not sexism, just like Nazi-Jokes are not racism. The punchline of the joke is that you'd say such a thing, not "Hey, sexism is cool!" and everybody except for the most stupid of people, understands that.

Reverse sexism, eh? We've finally arrived at the heart of it here; again, ignorance as to the meaning of words.

No, it's just sexism. If you generalize a group of people because of what individuals do, that's sexism right there. You probably have some way around it with "Sexism is actually prejudice + power" or something like that, but nobody in the real world buys that.

Broccoli is the real chocolate. Pro-choice are the real anti-choice. Atheism is a religion.

And God is dead!

Sexism: a biological necessity that you cannot control.

You can control your metabolism. Don't eat beans, if you ever eat beans, you're a climate change supporter. Don't eat large portions, if you ever have, you've contributed to a system of hierarchies that support climate change. And if you deny the importance of this, you're a terrible person!

 

[Kyriakos]

Btw, Uma seems to be taking way too long to reveal what she meant. Maybe indeed she will just hide in a dark corner and wait it out.
I hope not; i was really looking forward to the end of Tarentine spider man. Say Tarantino one more time, i dare you.

 

[Ryika]

What if she didn't even mean him? ^^

 

[Kyriakos]

What if she didn't even mean him? ^^

It would be underwhelming, imo ^^

 

[Manfred Belheim]

we can't pretend the problem is coterminous with these particularly egregious men. It's all of us

Jesus. Can I just disavow this comment in the strongest terms possible please? Okay thanks, you may now continue.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I don't know how you are Kyr, but generally men who tell me they've never done anything to contribute to this problem are either lying, or they don't understand that their behavior is problematic, which in either case proves my point.

Stating that your point is always right and unfalsifiable, doesn't actually prove it you know.

 

[Kyriakos]

Uma sort of made a statement, but it looks like she won't be really saying much. At any rate all she did a few days ago was tweet specifically about Weinstein, saying that he doesn't deserve (a quick death by) a bullet, so it is fitting this is taking longer.

No Trollentino. As MericaHercules would say: DISSAPPOINTED!