UNGY-01 Another spy attempt

[ungy]

OK--I roll one up.

And the start:

This looks like quite a good start, especially for a financial leader.
However, the marble is not nearly as useful as it would normally be.

My thinking is we either want to settle in place or 1W. I'm thinking move the warrior to the SW and then decide.

Any lurkers want to help us out and check to see if we're isolated?

 

[Rusten]

Woah! That start is insane, fresh water corn+riverside gold and flood plains is huge (marble won't matter as much for this variant indeed, stone would be silly though). I'd say the chance of us being isolated is lower than usual judging by the start location. Most of the time I'm isolated on fractal I get a coastal start - this on the other hand is not. Would still be great to get some confirmation though.

Your movement plan for enabling the leevee sounds good. I doubt there's another resource next to the corn & marble and the two south-east tiles we miss out on are clearly forested.

 

[mystyfly]

I think moving the settler 1W or 1S are options, for levees and clean power.
Marble will help us on the Taj if we want to build it.

It think if some1 wants to check for isolation, a save would be required...

 

[shyuhe]

1W or in place - either is fine with me. Can we see the map after the 1SW warrior move? Leaving the forest 1W for a chop on the GW is also appealing too...

I'm assuming we're allowed to tech masonry? Then I'd go agriculture -- mining (don't remember if the English start with this) -- BW -- masonry -- archery (if no bronze).

 

[Rusten]

I'm assuming we're allowed to tech masonry? Then I'd go agriculture -- mining (don't remember if the English start with this) -- BW -- masonry -- archery (if no bronze).

Of course, masonry is a worker tech (quarry).
England starts with fishing and mining.

I guess we'll be aiming for the Great Wall before making any additional cities? I'm not sure how early it goes on immortal, but on deity you have to start immediately after worker. It would suck to lose out on it in an espionage game and our start is pretty good for early production, 2 hills without forests on them (meaning we can postpone bronze working), corn and gold. Gathered those tiles give us 8 9 and 11 at size 4, excluding the starting plot - this should make for an early GW. We'll keep a surplus of 4 food too for growing to size 5 while using the hills (we can get size 6 early too due to gold). The hammers will come in handy for the imperialistic bonus afterwards as well.

My suggestion: worker first *duh* and tech agriculture -> masonry (start GW) -> bronze -> archery if no bronze anywhere. Our starting position is very suitable for our variant

Also, I suggest we cottage the flood plains asap rather than temporarily farm as the hills are better for settler production anyway due to our trait.

 

[pigswill]

Chipping in. Settle on start. Agric, Masonry first. Defensive units will depend on how soon we can build Gwall compared to the date that barbs start crossing cultural borders. Its bound to be fairly early, I don't know how early.

 

[Rusten]

I think we'll have time to complete the wall first if we start on it right after worker because:
- we only need 1 worker tech before starting due to unforested hills.
- we start with mining.
- we have high production right off the bat.
This is almost the perfect starting tech and land for an early Great Wall. Only way to make it better would be to have an unforrested plains hill and to start with agriculture instead of fishing.

The first worker takes 15 turns, then I guess we'll be wanting a second warrior while finishing masonry after agriculture (there will be a short interval) and then the GW. At size 4 it will take 15 turns to construct (10 production 150 cost), but we won't be there right away. Still, I'd guess we'll have it up and running sooner than or 40 turns into the game as our city will grow very fast. What year is that (turn 40) ingame? We could probably get it turn 30 or something too if we chop a forest or two.

Regardless, we should get it even if we stop for an archer on the way there. But I'd still go masonry first and start on it right away, we can just pause once or twice and decide what to do depending on the nearby territory. If we find copper in our BFC we wait for the wheel and having it hooked up before we make more units and if there isn't we make an archer or two.

 

[KurKo]

lurker here..

It think if some1 wants to check for isolation, a save would be required...

that might help so if you can upload the save i can check it.

 

[ungy]

Chipping in. Settle on start. Agric, Masonry first. Defensive units will depend on how soon we can build Gwall compared to the date that barbs start crossing cultural borders. Its bound to be fairly early, I don't know how early.

Immortal barbs cross culture around 2000. That's turn 50 at normal speed so there should be plenty of time.

 

[ungy]

that might help so if you can upload the save i can check it.

I guess that would help

I moved the warrior SW:

This makes me more inclined to settle in place, as settling 2 in from the coast could kill a city site. Although we do have the desert tile to settle if there's some seafood out there.

 

[Rusten]

Actually seeing that screenshot I'd recommend settling 1 south. Reason being coastal fish(!?) spotted 3 tiles north-northeast of the warrior! That's such a killer tile for financial in the beginning. It's still in the fog, but if you look closely you'll catch a glimpse of the fish jumping up in the water. We're definitely going to settle a city over there, and 1 south means less overlap. The river is going south too, so the risk of bad tiles below is low.

PS: now I'm unsure, it could just be the end of the river. Need more opinions on this
Actually looking further into it, it's not a fish at all, I was getting excited being my first time with financial in a while and all.
Let's just settle in place, before pink elephants pop up before me.

 

[shyuhe]

Settling in place gives us two extra forests to chop for either the GW or setters. If we're going to build the GW before a settler (seems the safer option), we'll want to chop out settlers to catch up on expansion later.

 

[druidravi]

I have checked the start in WB . You are not isolated . Rather interesting map .

 

[pigswill]

Something that may or may not become relevant is that spies and great spies make good scouts because they're invisible to barbs.

 

[ungy]

OK- lets get this going:

We settle in place:

3840 we pop a hut for a scout.

3640 Ag in--masonry.
Buddhism founded.

3560 we pop a hill hut with the scout and get...experience. Scout is then eaten by a lion

3480 panther attacks warrior at +75% we win but take a little damage.

3400 London worker-warrior.

3320 another hut and more experience.

3240 we meet a neighbor to the SW:

He's founded buddhism.
masonry in --BW.

3200 I leave the worker unmoved. I'm assuming we mine the gold next but I haven't planned the city development.

The world as we know it:

 

[ungy]

save is here:

I think 20 turns is good for this round but we shouldn't hesitate to play a few more or a few less if it makes sense.

 

[Rusten]

Got it. Guessing im up unless we changed the roster order somewhere.

Initial thoughts; guess we should try to figure out just how close Monty is regarding settling using that warrior we've got exploring to the south. If he's just beyond that choke point we should settle there asap after the GW to secure our land and not get boxed in with minimal cities and too much hills/plains. Going to sleep on it now and play in the morning. That gold will be of great aid for quick IW though, so we can move into the jungle somewhat early without suffering badly economically.

 

[shyuhe]

Or you can think of gold mine = 4 close cities/2 far cities It will definitely let us box in without killing our economy.

I think it's better to farm the corn first. If we're rushing for the GW, we need a bigger city to work more production tiles.

I do hope that Monty isn't our only neighbor (2 civ continents on fractal happens fairly often) as he's not going to be the most useful civ to steal techs from (especially since we'll probably get attacked).

 

[pigswill]

@ Rusten: IW=Iron Working? I guess this would be a tech for us to steal rather than research though its up to Ungy to give us a clear list of techs that we can research on our own.

 

[Rusten]

@ pigswill; Oh, I thought IW was considered ok, it's a pretty essential worker tech on jungle maps. It probably won't come up in my set though, got other stuff to research first, like pottery, but we should agree on this as soon as possible.

@ shyuhe; ungy farmed the corn already, it's an obvious first move.
Regarding fractal maps, lately I've seen several which are like a moving snake, meaning not very wide so to get to the next you have to go through the other. This could prove bad to our spies as there's a distance cost. Monty isn't exactly a tech whore either, so we would be happy with some other options sooner or later I think.

Will play in a moment.