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UNGY-01 Another spy attempt

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by ungy, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Turn 20-40: Started by locating a hut which popped a scout. I also put woodsman 2 on our warrior in order to move through the jungle to scout. This proved to be great, we have a HUGE mass of land mapped out atm which should make it easier for us to coordinate city planning, and our 2 woodsman warrior defeated an archer in the process in the jungle. :goodjob:

    Mined the gold first and our research goes from 10 -> 18 beakers, very good.

    Turn 26, started constructing the Great Wall.

    Did some safe coast-scouting with our warrior before setting him to garrison, and look at that, I told you there was fish!



    Too bad it "moved" from the coastal tile somehow, would've been better there. :lol:

    Turn 29, we see the aztec border for the first time, made a screen, but will just use the map at turn 40 instead as it's much more interesting and filled out.

    Turn 30, BW is done and.....



    ..there's no copper anywhere that we can see, so I start archery.

    Turn 37, I decide to do 1 chop on our Great Wall as that barbarian archer over there has been giving me bad looks for several turns.



    To end it, here's the map at turn 40. Our warrior and scout are both still alive. That scout not bumping into barbs and the warrior having 2 movement through jungles has given us tons of info on the landscape.



    Honourable mentions;
    - As Monty is far away we have the luxury of settling wherever we want early on. Rembember to use as many forest/jungle tiles as possible when exploring with the warrior, both for speed and protection.

    - There seems to be a pretty nice island south-east of our start. You can see the start of it east of the top fish, but we also know that it's big enough to also support the lower fish as seafood never spawn 2 tiles away from land like that. I recommend that we map out that one as early as we can with a work boat to know how good it is. Those islands are so good for trade routes in mercantilism, and there's a period in the middle game where all the AI's change to it. We should try to settle 2 cities there, even if they have crazy overlap, for the trade routes alone.

    - We're 2 turns away from the Great Wall atm and our worker is idle just having chopped a forest. I recommend saving at least 2 forests for health, but 4 is also an option. There are 2 plains forest not on river and those I'd prefer stay for as long as possible. Start by chopping the forests that are on the river if we need to.

    Next up I think we should grow to size 6 (remember to make a road to the gold when the wheel is researched) while making archers and start mass expanding then. We will need a lot of workers too, especially if we move into the jungle. Would also be a good idea to scout the northern region a little more for seafood and such, but I put priority on the jungle area these turns to locate our closest neighbour.
     

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  2. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    This is an interesting map indeed... It's going to be hard to steal techs for cheap given the distance cost here... Got it and will post some comments before playing.

    It looks like we'll need IW to get any really good cities on this map :(
     
  3. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Indeed, we'll have a great city south of the sugar though. Catching gems, fish, river and is coastal without many ocean tiles. Will generate great commerce even from trade routes. I'd put that one down very early, the sugar is also on fresh water, so we can farm it for 4:food: even before stealing calendar.

    also, a little micro tip that I left out at first:
    - the Great Wall is currently at 128/150 :hammers: and we're getting 12 per turn so we can go for 10 one of those turns. The thing is that if we switch to the lake for 1 turn we'll get the wheel 1 turn earlier so that our worker won't have to skip a turn roading that gold. Put London to lake first turn and then switch to marble or plains forest the turn after.

    Edit: We could make that sugar city our GP farm (merchants and spies). The bigger size it is the higher trade routes, and it will have huge health due to its location.
     
  4. ungy

    ungy Deity

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    OK--nicely done Rusten.

    Good choice on the woody warrior--a little weedy on my part not doing it right away.

    I think researching IW is within the spirit of the game and we should allow it.
    Intent is to have an espionage economy--not cripple our early development.

    We have land to the SSE--it's possible that there is a closer AI than Monte. We can reach it without a culture bridge so once we get a coastal city a WB is in order.

    We need to decide how aggressively to block Monte--the sooner we can get a look at if he's got land behind him or more AI the better.

    Roster:
    Ungy
    Rusten: played
    Shuyhe: UP
    Pigswill: On Deck
    Mystyfly
    Morganknight
     
  5. ungy

    ungy Deity

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    I'd probably quarry the marble--that's a 1f3h3c tile for us before roading the gold--I think we can get the gold roaded by the time we need it if we do it after the marble.
     
  6. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    ahhh, of course! I totally forgot we have masonry researched, I have little experience in these kinds of games, not used to jumping in like that after someone. :coffee: Agree 100%.

    Our warrior already has 7 experience btw, so I suggest we fortify him on a forested hill somewhere in that area and let him get 10 experience (unlocks the heroic epic). There's 1 barbarian archer and 1 warrior that we know of nearby already, so that's 9 out of 10, just need 1 more.
     
  7. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

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    Nice exploring Rusten :goodjob:

    I think our second city should grab one of the two western gems. We'll get gems anyway but having the second or third city grab gold/gems is great to avoid a crippled economy early on. However, the more aggressively we settle, the more mad he'll get at us for doing so. But I think on the long run, a war vs Monty is inevitable - probabely @ rifles, if he doesn't declare before?

    We should make use of our Marble - probabely try the Parthenon or the Taj Mahal.

    Also we should consider moving the capital to get cheaper espionage missions, but this depends what islands we find to our east.

    Definitely looking foreward to a great game :goodjob:
     
  8. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Are we allowed to research mysticism? This is going to affect our early city placement if we're not allowed to research it...

    If we can research it, I'd like to place the first city on the southern coast in the jungle 1S of sugar. If we can't... then I'd actually try to settle the corn/gem to the west and try to block Monty off...
     
  9. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Yes, mysticism is allowed. As ungy said, the goal is to display a good espionage economy, not ruin our early game completely.

    me too, this will be a fun game I think.
     
  10. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

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    That not only unlocks HE but also gets us a first medic, woodsman III :D
    We can get the xp for HE also by razing some barbcities that are sure to pop up in the land we want to backfill.
     
  11. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    What's up with Monty, is he running an espionage game too?! He has 134 EP's vs our 84 already. Is he already using the slider? :eek:

    Maybe he has some undercover agents following our game plan and realised teching is useless, he'll just slaughter us with his jaguars. :mischief:
     
  12. ungy

    ungy Deity

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    Yes definately.
     
  13. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    well a fairly quiet set. The woodsman warrior is still 1 XP short of 10. The scout met an unfortunate death :(

    IT: MM for the wheel in 1 turn

    Turn 41 - wheel is in. Pottery selected

    Turn 42 - GW is finished.

    Turn 46 - pottery is finished. Mysticism selected.

    Turn 49 - mysticism is finished. IW selected.

    Turn 54 - York is founded south of London. I didn't settle in the jungle as it will immediately need a worker to be useful (because it's junk until the border pops). Since there's only one worker running around, I settler York on the river south of London so that we can get a WB out to explore the SE land.

    Turn 59 - QSH makes contact from... the SE land :lol: Oddly enough, Monty has already made contact with QSH as well (F4). So I'm guessing this is a C-shaped landmass.

    Turn 60 - nada. Settler is being completed, and a granary is in the queue 1 turn from completion (finish it before growing to size 6). I propose that we block off Monty by settling these two sites:



    With border pops, they will cut off a lot of land from Monty expansion. The border pop from York will cutoff most of the access from the east. The jungle city in the south with sugar/gems will finish off the blocking. IW is 2 turns from completion - I imagine if we block off all this land, we'll have it somewhere. Plus there's an empty patch of grassland in the jungle that is probably horses (if we don't find iron).
     

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  14. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    I love the city placement, exactly where I wanted the gems city as well. City "two" doesn't have a food resource though, that could be a problem, on the other hand it does a great job in blocking off Monty so I'm not sure what to think. We could opt to move it 1 SW for the corn as it will grow much faster and be able to whip out granary and such faster. It will still serve a blocking job, but you might be planning on saving that corn for the pigs on the hill below. Good move on York too, that wheat is nothing but a trap as it's surrounded by horrible plains, we're better off ignoring it for a long time and only claim it as a health resource, it's already in our cultural borders anyway.

    I noticed you grouped your settler with the archer, I think that's a little risky. There's always the occasional loss to a barbarian archer even in forest/jungle, so imho it would be better to move the archer first and then the settler follow if the tile is safe. We could also suddenly have 2 archers next to each other as everything there is fogged.

    Maybe our 9/10 warrior would have more luck if we send him SE via the forests. It appears the continent ends very close to where he's sitting at the moment, we can see coast suddenly 2 tiles westwards north of the furthest corn.

    pigswill, you're up.
     
  15. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    I like city 2 because of the 3 grassland ivory tiles. Those are 2/2/3 base tiles. And 1SW doesn't block off the land as it leaves a corridor open :( I don't know how aggressive Monty is about settling. Honestly he'll probalby just dow before he tries to settle behind our backlines so I think production from the ivory will be more useful. Monty is pleased with QSH as well.

    Good point on the settler escort. The archer is also injured so be careful.
     
  16. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    I don't like ivory tiles, they are only 2/2/1, and never get any better. They would be 2/2/3 if they were on a river. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but as far as I remember the camp only gives 1 commerce and 1 production. There will only be a gap 1 tile wide if we move 1 SW. He won't settle behind us then in my experience, at least not until the northern area is settled. You don't have to block everything off so it's not possible to move there, they will still back off. If it was already crowded pangea-ish I'd settle where you put it immediately, but as there are an awful lot of city sites open I'm not so sure. A 5 food tile is great production too (slavery), and with that we could run a mine or something instead. 2 ivory = 4f/4p/2c vs corn+mine = 6f/3p/0c.
     
  17. ungy

    ungy Deity

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    Nice going Shuyhe! It's good to see that it isn't just us and Monte--that would have been tough given our variant.

    As for settling, how about settling the plains hill1SE of site 1 and then 2S of site 2 on the coast? We'll still block with border pops and the southern city will rock with 2 food--both cities will be coastal but no water in the southern one.

    We should get OB with Monte ASAP to try and get religion.
     
  18. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    That sounds like a great plan, but won't it even have 3 food? corn+pigs+clams - I'm guessing you forgot the clams as they are pretty hidden. However, the best part about your suggested settling is that both cities will be on a hill. Seeing as Monty is our neighbour that's an extremely favourable position to settle our border cities in as he will probably get enough on his hands soon.

    Also, nice turns shyuhe, we're off to a good start I believe. We've got 2 out of 3 granary resources, 2 out of 3 sea resources and also 2 out of 3 forge resources (gold+gems), we should be able to grow some big cities. Too bad there was no rice in that jungle though, surprised me when I explored it.
     
  19. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    City 2 south of elephant's graveyard nets clams and pigs but misses corn (there's a bit of a mountain in the way). Might be useful to see if there's iron around before getting too definite with dotmaps.

    I've got it.

    I'll probably play a couple of turns until IW then post some shots showing that there's no iron anywhere in sight.
     
  20. ungy

    ungy Deity

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    I was figuring the southern city would NOT be on the hill but would be 1NE of that spot. That'll lose the corn, and the hill defense but will pick up 2 ivory and importantly close the culture gap with one border pop.

    I would worry if we settle the hill we'll leave a culture gap that Monte will shoot through to claim the ivory--better to cede the corn and prevent that. I agree that the hill has a lot going for it as you mention, but I worry we won't get a third city up in time (or necessarily want one there). Not terrible to leave Monte a little more land to give us some time to develop/get religion.
     

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