Between calendar and construction both are good. Construction would let us get some very useful elephants vs a possible attack by Montezuma while calendar would let us get that sugar near York online. Personally I'm leaning towards elephants because I really hate having to "trust" Montezuma, but either is fine. We would need horseback riding too though, if we plan to head for war elephants.
The khmer don't like us enough to even consider changing religion mystyfly. Also remember to steal CoL. I can't believe it's 800 AD already, we're so short in the tech tree, we'll have to steal our way towards bureaucracy as well pretty soon.
Ah, I see. Forgot about that option for a sec. Nice move thinking about that.
That would be an interesting scenario--I guess he'll spawn the AP as his state religion and not the one with the most cities, but I don't know tbh, never been in this situation before. You can give it a try and see what comes out of it.
The cost is also very low, can't remember the exact number, but after looking at the save earlier it was about 2-300 EPs.
Cats are also good at weakening stacks in a defensive role; not being stopped by rivers will help our units (spies) travel around.
Could be worth seeing if Qin is willing to donate something to our 'research'.
Should have a spy in Monte city in the next couple of turns for the CoL theft.
That would be an interesting scenario--I guess he'll spawn the AP as his state religion and not the one with the most cities, but I don't know tbh, never been in this situation before. You can give it a try and see what comes out of it.
I'm pretty sure that the AP spawns in the religion the builder is in atm. TBH, I never had the builder switch religion afterwards so I have no idea what happens. But "stealing" the AP would be very powerful - let him build it, use it yourself .
However I think it might be possible, that Sury.. switches out of buddhism again after 5 turns and the AP's religion changes, meaning we don't get much of a hammer boost. Also controlling the AP can be nice to sign peace with Monty when he attacks. Or we declare on some AI and let Monty join it. But I think we don't have enought votes to overrule Monty. We would be dependant on other AI's votes (still not sure if it will be enought then - no idea how far Buddhism has spread).
I'm pretty sure the AP religion is determined by the state religion that the builder has when the AP is completed. I am almost certain that the AP religion, once determined, can't change. No matter what the builder does to it's state religion.
Forcing the AP guy to your religion right before he completes it would be a sweet use of espionage. Give that a try!
I'm pretty sure the AP religion is determined by the state religion that the builder has when the AP is completed. I am almost certain that the AP religion, once determined, can't change. No matter what the builder does to it's state religion.
Yea, i think so too after giving it some more thought. The text upon construction goes something like gathering under a certain religion, not ruler, so it's probably there to stay.
I've certainly never done this but it would be huge!
Let's try to do that.
When I click on change religion, I get a 48% chance. So we should get a another spy at least into Khmer lands.
Ultimately we're going to need some more land and it's not clear to me the best place to acquire it. But I think a set of infra makes sense --we need several more spies as we need to get stealing and converting. A few more LB for the border with Monte wouldn't hurt either.
Roster:
Ungy
Rusten
Shuyhe
Pigswill: just played
Mystyfly: UP
Morganknight: On deck
I'm sorry, seems I underestimated the work I've got to do this evening (and I didn't find time yesterday...). So if someone wants to swap, go ahead. Otherwise, I'll post at ~5-6PM.
I'm pretty sure changing his state religion will cause the AP to spawn as his new state religion. It's definitely something I haven't considered doing before.... As for the Khmer getting powerful, he's got a neighbor he'll have to take out before he'll come after us (especially since they don't share religions). So I think we're still safe on that front. I think Monty is going after Mansa but I imagine it's taking him a long time to declare because he has to build abunch of boats.
I used spies to convert in another game and the AI did instantly convert back. If we want to do this we have to be prepared to convert twice I think, which might be a somewhat tall order.
I used spies to convert in another game and the AI did instantly convert back. If we want to do this we have to be prepared to convert twice I think, which might be a somewhat tall order.
I think the 5 turns only counts if they revolt voluntarily--in any case they did convert back same turn--it was late game and I had heaps of spies so I just reconverted and then they were stuck.
I think the 5 turns only counts if they revolt voluntarily--in any case they did convert back same turn--it was late game and I had heaps of spies so I just reconverted and then they were stuck.
Inherited Turn - 800 AD - Turn 150
We definitely need more spies on the Chinese/Khmer island but atm only York is really able to produce stuff that is built and in place in time. It is building a second galley atm which is fine. I redirect our EPs on Monty from +4 to +1 (the weight), as we've got more than enought to get CoL and still have some EPs left.
(1) 820 AD
A miracle @ city wall at Hastings. I take the second option, paying 35 gold and convert our 2 remaining cities to the true faith (we definitely need monotheism soon). So Alemanni, the ex-barb city doesn't need to build a monument (the other northern city is nearly done anyway).
(2) 840 AD
I see QSH trying to build the AP in Beijing, due in 7 (the Khmers are due in 12). phew. Good we have a scouting chariot there. I try to bring as many spies to that island as possible. I also note that Beijing is not buddhist. That means that it can't build us the AP, as the city building the AP must have the state religion. We don't have access to organized religion and no buddhist monastery so I decide that the Khmer shall succeed in building the AP (I guess QSH just won't be able to continue building once his state religion is Buddhism).
(4) 880 AD
SB wants us to stop trading with Ragnar. Sorry man, but Ragnars power graph usually skyrockets. I don't want to piss this guy off (this game is no exception although it seems Ragnar underestimated protective, totem pole-boosted Archers...).
(5) 900 AD
SB and Ragnar make peace.
A slave revolt in Beijing that surely makes things easier.
(7) 940 AD
Another slave revolt, this time in... London
(8) 960 AD
I whip some buildings in Notts and Hastings as next turn, the spy in the Aztec land has its -50% and the overflow goes into courts.
(9) 980 AD
I get CoL with the first spy but he gets caught. Note: the other spy is on the way to York, I believe I forgot to remove the 'go-to'
(10) 1000 AD
Now, the crucial year for the English people. Their spies must succeed or the great plan fails (I've only got one spy in hari... (Khmer-AP-city) and two in Chen..., the Chinese city that has the cheapest missions. As it takes the Khmer some more turns to complete the AP, and the first of the chinese spies succeed, we'll still have a second spy for the Khmer).
Despite the odds of ~50%, our brave spy in Hari... succeeds. He's been in this city for decades and it is like a walk in the park to him.
Now the spy in the chinese lands also faces the same odds... And succeeds! Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good That leaves 1 spy in Cheng... and another who arrived there this turn (but who can't do anything yet). I leave those two in there to steal some techs.
Now the Chinese are Buddhists who cannot continue the AP (due in 1 )unless they spread buddhism to Beijing which will take some time I guess and the Khmer are buddhists as well who will build us the AP.
We should think about for who to vote. It's either Monty or Sury (most votes vs builder). QSH will vote for Monty or abstain as he dislikes those Khmer (hey - I'm not the only one!) and Monty and Sury will vote for themselves. I think if we vote for Sury, he'll beat Monty as QSH won't have many Buddhist cities.
Now, what is better for us, the AP in the hands of our lunatic neighbour or the ugly man on the other continent? I think Sury might be better because he then might stay in buddhism.
---
Currently, the world is in peace but I expect to see some wars soon - Monty, Ragnar and Mansa are all in WHEOOH-mode. Nottingham and Hastings are all defended by 3 CG2 Lbows and a spear (roughtly) and there still is this axe-stack in the middle.
I didn't manage to steal any techs but CoL as all our spy ressources were invested on getting the buddhist AP. York has been producing spies non-stop (after the second galley was finished). London is still busy building the market. I stayed in 50% esp all the time, we have still 250 gold left in the treasury, plenty to deal with random events.
I didn't leave the spies staying in galleys. None was discovered anyway
As I write this, I remember that we don't sell our ressources which we should (for the gpt and the diplo).
Its not my strongest area in civ (tho actually, I have no strong areas in civ ) but don't we get +2 diplo for voting someone as resident. I'm not sure if we get a penalty from their opponent, but its a chance for a diplo bonus with someone.
Its not my strongest area in civ (tho actually, I have no strong areas in civ ) but don't we get +2 diplo for voting someone as resident. I'm not sure if we get a penalty from their opponent, but its a chance for a diplo bonus with someone.
no idea about diplo+ but I don't think we'll get negatives. In this case we should vote for Sury, as pleasing Monty would be too hard to be worth the effort (we only have two border cities to defend (which are nicely defended atm) that are on hills).
We only have 2 border cities, but Monty is 2 turns away from macemen. He already has civil service and 2 turns left on machinery. I don't want to war with him in this age, he simply produces so many troops, and macemen with siege collateral can take down hill cities if enough units.
We get +2 for every vote that comes up in someones's favour, not just the resident vote, so it's possible to get at least +4 as well if 2 in a row, but they go away after some time (don't remember the exact number of turns).
Suggest stealing civil service (bureaucracy) asap+next and whip out courthouses, the sooner the better.
We only have 2 border cities, but Monty is 2 turns away from macemen. He already has civil service and 2 turns left on machinery. I don't want to war with him in this age, he simply produces so many troops, and macemen with siege collateral can take down hill cities if enough units.
yeah, CS is okey.
courts are on their way in notts and hastings, whippable in 2-3 turns (probabely whippable atm but then they'll grow). They pay 8/9 gpt. Another one is started in this city in the middle, which pays 6 gpt.
I would vote for Monty and hope that we can push him up to friendly. It looks like he's been preparing for war for the longest time.... I'm almost certain it's not us (he would have pounced on us ages ago) so I still think he's trying to "dogpile" Mansa. Who does Ragnar hate the most? He's probably thinking about going after Mansa or SB.
I agree that trying to steal CS from Monty is worth the risk. You can get your spy caught a few times before you get the diplo penalty and we're still accumulating shared religion bonuses anyways. We need more spies to catch up in techs though.
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, not by ASKING him to. Remember, we're the ones who control everyone? They're all merely puppets 
.
that surely makes things easier.
That leaves 1 spy in Cheng... and another who arrived there this turn (but who can't do anything yet). I leave those two in there to steal some techs.
) but don't we get +2 diplo for voting someone as resident. I'm not sure if we get a penalty from their opponent, but its a chance for a diplo bonus with someone.
