UNGY-04 Who do they think they are?

[pigswill]

I think that the modifiers shown don´t factor in the hidden modifiers (duh) so we´re getting a base -4 from Shaka just for existing.

 

[silverbullet]

hehe...
-4 you are not Shaka

 

[Dresden]

Lurker Interruption

It is strange that the glance screen shows +7 when in fact we have +11.
Which one is correct?

You guys have managed to expose a bug in the glance screen. The problem is your leader's name. The parser reads the "-04" from "UNGY-04" as a -4 modifier, and so instead of counting +11, it includes the -4 and drops it to +7. If you changed the leadername to, for example, "UNGY04" then Glance would give you the +11. So basically the glance screen attitude numbers relating to you will all be off by 4 in this game.

While there are hidden diplo modifiers, the Python cannot access them and so that doesn't factor in to the display.

 

[r_rolo1]

lurker's comment: Good to see that there are more that 4 persons to know this little bug, Dresden

 

[Dresden]

Continued Lurker Interruption

@r_rolo1: Thanks for the link. I didn't actually know about it until I downloaded the save from here and looked. If I had known about this a week or two ago, a fix would have been part of Unofficial Patch 0.19.1 Maybe I should spend some of my free time reading old bug reports Oh well, at least the new attitude utility I'm working on for BUG won't have this problem...

 

[pigswill]

Glance screen could get very discouraging when (if) we get to UNGY-100!

Presumably this means that we are at +11 after all.

Who´s up? Mystyfly?

 

[ungy]

OK-back from the last of my summer trips.

I've got the order as:

Ungy
Rusten
Silverbullet--Just played
Atropos--UP
Mystyfly
Pigswill

However, Atropos has been away so why doesn't mystyfly take it?

I'm disappointed we don't have friendly here at +11--I guess we have a hidden mod with Shaka--anyone know what that might be?

I think we should discuss trading strategies before we get contacts--maybe break the next set once we get the caravels out--I also don't think we need to upgrade.

If we make a trade at first opportunity we get +4 fair trade but risk getting the - traded with my enemies hit.

 

[Dresden]

More from the Peanut Gallery

I'm disappointed we don't have friendly here at +11--I guess we have a hidden mod with Shaka--anyone know what that might be?

There are two definite negatives so you can assume a minimum of +12 needed for Friendly.

• -1 because you're on a difficulty level above Warlord.
• -1 because, as silverbullet put it, "you are not Shaka" (he has a base attitude of -1 with everybody).

That's probably it at this point in the game. Since Shaka has a higher score, you haven't kicked his ass, and nobody has any other team members there shouldn't be any more hidden negatives and any hidden positives would have put you at Friendly already.

 

[mystyfly]

However, Atropos has been away so why doesn't mystyfly take it?

Got it.

Any comments? I'll wait until tomorrow with playing so there's still time...

RE diplo with shaka: Are we suffering from that -4 from our name or not? I only glanced quickly at that link (really funny bug ) but don't know if it affects us. If it does, I think we could change our ingame nick (ungy-04) to ungy 04 or so but not sure... Dresden?

 

[Dresden]

@mysty: the name-related -4 is only a display bug and has no effect on gameplay. Rest assured that Shaka's actual (visible) attitude toward you is the +11 you see from counting the pluses and his true attitude toward you including hidden modifiers (see previous post) is most likely +9 no matter what your leader name is.

 

[Rusten]

Don't have much to add really, it should be a pretty quiet set assuming Shaka won't do anything (which I doubt he will seeing as there's no spike in his power graph). If something then fix tiles in Chichen Itza (cottages ready--so take some citizens off coast) and Calakmul (riverside forest fur instead of forest grassland).

I agree with no upgrading of triremes--there's plenty of time to make caravels the regular way.

 

[pigswill]

Given that we don´t know what the other AIs are doing how do we know we´re ahead on the circumnagivation race?
There ain´t many wonders on the optics path (only Colossus, built in 50ad) so that´s not a clue. We could assume that the AIs are going for a standard feudalism > engineering tech path, but that´s only an assumption.
(As you might guess I´m a neurotic pessimist when it comes to Civ).

 

[mystyfly]

Played 10 quiet turns

IHT
Set research to 0%.
Little MM here and there.

2(IBT)
Shaka gets a GE. Who does he think he is, this Norbert Rillieux?? (he didn't seem to rush any wonder)


(3)
We now have ~350g and I set research to 100% and MM several cities to finish their builds in 3 turns (when optics finishes)

(4) IBT
Our brave galley successfully defends against a barbarian galley.

(6)
Optics > Calendar

Several cities start building our exploring navy:


(8) IBT
Taoism FIDL
AP (hindu) BIDL

Toynbee brings us rather bad news:


Our first caravel leaves the save harbour.

(10)
Peace treaty with Shaka ends

Some more caravels finish

I end my turns...

---

On turn 9 or so Shaka landed a small force on our island. I pulled some units out of the eastern cities. Just keep an eye on those units. In case of a DOW, they would be teleported somewhere near the furs.


Techscreen, not that it tells that much: (note that Shaka doesn't have calendar)


There was a nearly finished settler that is now ready. My suggested spot:


It's food poor (like everywhere down there) but coastal and should easily yield more than it costs us.

Our caravels:


Pigswill is up, ungy on deck, if I read that roster properly.

View attachment UNGY-04 AD-0860.CivBeyondSwordSave

edit: wonders built during my set: Notre dame (engineering!) , Hagia sophia and MoM.

 

[Rusten]

Looking good.

Happy you didn't settle that city though because IMO it's far better 1E. It will gain a 2H center (lacks food so working horses isn't good) and gains 2 more grassland tiles which we could cottage.

We can get Shaka to friendly now by giving him optics (or calendar if we're lucky--but not sure about that one). We won't have much left to trade but at least he won't declare on us.

The next set will be meeting new AIs so we have to decide whether to use the trick for +4 fair trade when meeting (gifting 20 gold). I don't like it that much, it feels a bit like an exploit. If not before then at least now in 3.17 as you can see that person X is the worst enemy of person Y even before meeting Y.

I don't think pigswill can play yet--so that would make ungy up next.

 

[mystyfly]

Happy you didn't settle that city though because IMO it's far better 1E. It will gain a 2H center (lacks food so working horses isn't good) and gains 2 more grassland tiles which we could cottage.

The settler has been waiting for exactly that reason (discuss exact city site). Good point about not working the horses but for the two grassland tiles we get we lose another 2 (altough they'd be overlap tiles...). I'm fine with either, but in general I try to avoid having that many coastal tiles like 1E will have.

We can get Shaka to friendly now by giving him optics (or calendar if we're lucky--but not sure about that one). We won't have much left to trade but at least he won't declare on us.

We should probabely try with calendar, to be 100% safe but I wouldn't give optics as we'll need it for trading around (relatively expensive and most likely unknown), and be sure to win the circumnavigation race (only important if we plan to kill some overseas civs - we want that, do we? ). OTOH shaka won't techtrade unless he knows some other civs too so we're in a kind of dilemma...

The next set will be meeting new AIs so we have to decide whether to use the trick for +4 fair trade when meeting (gifting 20 gold). I don't like it that much, it feels a bit like an exploit. If not before then at least now in 3.17 as you can see that person X is the worst enemy of person Y even before meeting Y.

I agree with not using it.

Some points I forgot earlier:
Moai - I'm for the city on the eastern cap, Xukpi. It has fish to work those tiles and some mines to get moai built. I'm not sure but we might be able to use those forests on the spice for moai too (in case they're overlap tiles). Since coastal production cities are important for naval warfare (if we decide to go that path...) we should start on that soon.

Map trading - With some smart selling and luck with the AIs we should be able to get quite some gold if we get paper before we trade around optics (or even after that); by buying other civ's world maps and selling them to shaka, and selling our map to the other civs. We'll surely be able to sell our map but it's in the stars whether we'll be able to buy maps.

 

[silverbullet]

What is this 20 gold thing? I was not aware of this bug/exploit. Don't you normally have to give a LOT of gifts to get to +4?

 

[mystyfly]

Seemingly not. I knew that and tried it before but didn't use it anymore as I consider it an exploit. Dunno why it works.

 

[say1988]

I assume it is meant a a "First impression" bonus. So the first time you meet someone, relations boosts are easier to come by. Never actually tried it myself, but have seen it mentioned more than a few times,

 

[pigswill]

Won´t have access to the game for another week so I´d be happy to skip for the moment, post when I´m able to play and let ungy decide where I fit into the roster.

20 gold for +4 relations does sound a good bargain and borderline exploit so in principle we should avoid it (coz its really embarassing to use exploits and still lose).

In this game we should be careful of foreign relations because almost everyone is going to be Shaka´s worst enemy and we don´t want to annoy Shaka until we can survive his wrath.

 

[silverbullet]

In this game we should be careful of foreign relations because almost everyone is going to be Shaka´s worst enemy and we don´t want to annoy Shaka until we can survive his wrath.

Shaka (and every other civ) can only have 1 worst enemy.
Also, after Astronomy is available we don't really need him, and may be able to take him in war (our research with GLH+Astronomy+ a lot of trading should enable us to get rifling or some other war tech).