Unique Ability Elimination Thread

[Ajay Sabharwal]

How does this make sense? You just penalize Babylon for having to use scientist specialist in order to make use in their ability yet you praised Korea's ability to generate science using specialist. How are you going to get GS tile improvement without using science specialist or late game faith-buy.

Seconded.

 

[fuzzatron717]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 29
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 50
Poland: Solidarity - 48

It doesn't matter how fun these UA's are it depends on powerful they are in any circumstance that is what we are voting for, but if it was for how much fun it is Korea I find is very boring you get a science boost every science building/wonder you build whooh not very fun it is just interestly powerful.

 

[YourHarry]

How does this make sense? You just penalize Babylon for having to use scientist specialist in order to make use in their ability yet you praised Korea's ability to generate science using specialist. How are you going to get GS tile improvement without using science specialist or late game faith-buy.

Perhaps, what he meant was that Babylon's 50% GS boost ability may seem better than it is. When people imagine GS boost, they *may* mistake that the boost begins from turn 0 - when in fact, GS points are hard to come by before University.

When people think about Korean UA - that specialists get extra science - I think it's more intuitive for people to think about when they would actually get the specialists. Simply because of the wording of the UA says "specialists generate extra science". Whereas, in Babylon UA wording is "Generate GS 50% faster". But of course, your point is valid - they both depend on specialists.

Still, Korean UA is more general. Merchants, Engineers, Writer, Artists, Muscians specialists also get the science boost - some of which may be available quite a few turns before University can be built. And the effect in science boost is immediate upon specialist assignment. And although Babylon's 50% GS point accumulates immediately as well, the effect of the benefit doesn't come until the scientist is actually generated, which may be many turns away.

Also, Korea +2 science is a pleasant addition to any of the great people landmarks. In most games, especially when I go piety, I end up building about 2 great prophet landmarks in a game. It's minor, but I am always to happy to hover my mouse over the landmark to see 2 3 6 3 and extra 2

 

[Merciorum]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 31
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 46
Poland: Solidarity - 48

Babylon's UA is better than Korea's. The number of GP tiles improvements you actually have is never going to be enough to significantly boost your research (except in the very early game where you aren't going to have any GPs), and nice though a tech boost is, having double the great scientists is going to always be more. Korea is the Morocco to Babylon's Portugal; still excellent at netting in the gold, but not quite as good.

 

[YourHarry]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 31
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 46
Poland: Solidarity - 48

Babylon's UA is better than Korea's. The number of GP tiles improvements you actually have is never going to be enough to significantly boost your research (except in the very early game where you aren't going to have any GPs), and nice though a tech boost is, having double the great scientists is going to always be more. Korea is the Morocco to Babylon's Portugal; still excellent at netting in the gold, but not quite as good.

You are forgetting the key component of Korea's UA: specialists generate extra science (not just great people landmarks). Also, Babylons do not generate double the great scientists - it's a 50% increase rather than 100%. Also, this doesn't come into play until later in the game.

I am not saying Korea is necessarily better than Babylon. Just trying to make sure all the information needed to make a reasonable evalutions is out there.

 

[Sagax]

Something tells me that Korea and Babylon will end up tearing each other apart, and Poland will snatch the victory just because it wasn't involved in this holy war.

Standard Civ5 strategy.

 

[redwings1340]

Something tells me that Korea and Babylon will end up tearing each other apart, and Poland will snatch the victory just because it wasn't involved in this holy war.

Standard Civ5 strategy.

I certainly hope this happens. Poland is my top choice here. Sure, science is king, but an entire policy tree of stuff is just straight up insane! There's a tipping point where a lot of culture or gold can beat a bit of science. It takes a whole lot of it, but Poland is there.

Before BNW I'm guessing these were the two undisputed champion UAs, although I suppose there are some Inca fans around here too.

 

[redwings1340]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 33
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 42
Poland: Solidarity - 48

Poland is my top choice UA, but I think Korea comes in full force a little bit too late to beat Babylon. The free academy at writing is just such a game changer... Korea makes a well played game all that much better, but Babylon's super early science boost can keep them ahead the entire game. It's similar to the shoshone strategy: get ahead early, get all the awesome wonders because you're ahead early, have the upper hand in every conflict because you're ahead early, and use the boost to get even further ahead. Then, when someone is catching up late game, use your extra great scientists to stay ahead.

 

[whyidie]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 33
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 43
Poland: Solidarity - 45


Up to Korea for the flexibility. Being able to work other specialist slots and not miss out on science boosts gives it an added dimension of flexibility that I value over straight great scienctist play.

Down to Poland. Prior to BNW release I thought it would be pretty powerful. It is, but its not quite Babylon or Korea. Simply put, I've never played a game where I have had more science than I knew what to do with. I have had games where I had more social policies than I knew what to do with. During the later stages of the game having excess social policies becomes less critical.

 

[Sir Parker II]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 30
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 43
Poland: Solidarity - 46

 

[nationstate]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 30
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 45 Multiple benefits to science victory type
Poland: Solidarity - 42 More policies will not directly help win the game

 

[jlim201]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 26-
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 45
Poland: Solidarity - 44

Poland gives you bonuses to win every condition (more honor for dom, more aesthesics for culture, more ration for science and more Patronage for diplo.

Babylon requires GS points to get more than 12 science by the end game from its UA.

 

[fuzzatron717]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 26
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 41
Poland: Solidarity - 46

 

[Sagax]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 28
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 43
Poland: Solidarity - 42

This is a deadlock. Rather than let Solidarity win just because it has no "natural enemies" left, I`ll balance it out with a vote to Korea. Ingenuity is good, but with the Jade Hall you pretty much let all kinds of specialists work towards your science.

 

[Merciorum]

You are forgetting the key component of Korea's UA: specialists generate extra science (not just great people landmarks). Also, Babylons do not generate double the great scientists - it's a 50% increase rather than 100%. Also, this doesn't come into play until later in the game.

I am not saying Korea is necessarily better than Babylon. Just trying to make sure all the information needed to make a reasonable evalutions is out there.

I meant 50%, sorry The specialists are still fairly underwhelming; it's never going to be enough of an increase to match Babylon's.

 

[thegingerninja]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 30 So powerful its not even funny
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 43
Poland: Solidarity - 38 Consistently underwhelms me

 

[DreadMuffin]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 32
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 43
Poland: Solidarity - 34

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 32
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 45
Poland: Solidarity - 30

Poland's got a boring UA, it doesn't have any flavour. Anything would be better, like maybe an ability to reassign Social policies at certain points in game. Anything that isn't so boring please!

 

[Ajay Sabharwal]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 34
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 41
Poland: Solidarity - 30

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Babylon: Ingenuity - 34
Korea: Scholars of the Jade Hall - 37
Poland: Solidarity - 32


+2 to Poland. Seriously, it's the best one in the game. And I vote it especially because the reasoning of other people is severely flawed. -2 because it's boring and just gives Social Policies? Yeah, Neby's free Great Scientist and more GS generation is so much more fun, not to mention Korea's fascinating +2 science per GP improvement/specialist combined with the oh-so captivating research agreements with yourself.

Not to mention free Social Policies give you more options and choice. Even suboptimal policy trees are a good choice with Poland, because you can just afford it.

Underwhelming? How is an entire policy tree for free underwhelming? Even if you only took inferior ones like Honor or Piety, that's still +15% combat strength, 50% more GG generation, faster melee unit creation, free GG, +1 happy/2 culture per garrison, 50% faster raising of useless XP buildings and gold per kill all in one ua. Obviously you won't pick Honour (at least not only that), so you can just get a Tenet or two, and I don't know, Patronage/Commerce/Liberty/Naval/Aesthetic policies.

-4 to Korea. It's superior to Babylon's, but simply doesn't deserve to be this much ahead, as they're - more or less - equal, with Sejkong having at best a slight edge.