Unit requests thread
- Thread starter Thunderfall
- Start date
09camaro
Rules 1 + 2!!
ooh. the Long Noses would have been nice if they had been built en masse.
stupid hitler.
stupid hitler.
Ambreville
Deity
ooh. the Long Noses would have been nice if they had been built en masse.
stupid hitler.
The problem was more lack of fuel and pilots more than it was a lack of airframes. But, yes, they should have had that one earlier and in far greater number in operational service. It was an effective counter (let alone the Ta154) to the Spit XIV & P51D.
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
It could be said the ENTIRE FW-190 line should have been fully utilized... in other words, Germany could-have/should-have switched all Me-109 production over to FW-190 production from the get-go. 109 production continued to war's end, even though the FW-190 from the first to last version were clearly superior to the Me-109 series.
By the time of the FW-190 D9 series, the war was pretty-much already lost however... and as previously mentioned, all the Dora-9's in the world would not have saved Germany, as by that time, Germany did not have the pilots, nor the fuel to keep that many planes in the air.
By the time of the FW-190 D9 series, the war was pretty-much already lost however... and as previously mentioned, all the Dora-9's in the world would not have saved Germany, as by that time, Germany did not have the pilots, nor the fuel to keep that many planes in the air.
Ambreville
Deity
Couldn't agree more... now, is anyone interested in designing a FW190d9? Pretty please!?
09camaro
Rules 1 + 2!!
true. and the Ta-154 would have been insane!
Bf-109. Messerschmit didn't use Me for some time. i do not know why, probably for the same reason that the Ta-154 used those initals, the lead designer (Tank right?)
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
Let me set you straight, since you seem a bit confused...
Bf-109 or Me-109...
World War II magazine did a study on this, and they determined once and for all which was correct. In 1926 Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (Bavarian Aircraft Works or BFW) was formed. Messerschmitt Flugzeugbau also established around this time. In 1927 the Bavarian government forced Messerschmitt and BFW to merge. Messerschmitt AG was incorporated as a separate company on July 11 1938, with Willy Messerschmitt as chairman and managing director. At the same time, Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (Bf) was renamed Messerschmitt AG, as a result, aircraft designed before 1938 retained the Bf designation (Bf 108, Bf 109A-D, Bf 110A-B).
Aircraft designed after 1938 used the Me designation (Me 109E+, Me 110C+). The wartime Luftwaffe themselves used these terminologies as stated above. Some lazy book writers after the war got it wrong, naming everything "Bf", and once one book put it down as Bf, everyone copied off that and assumed it was correct. However, as stated above most 109s actually should use the "Me" designation, just like the Luftwaffe did!
Historians (and book publishers) tend to get real lazy and copy everything they see in a previous print. the "Bf" designation has been bastardized to hell since WWII, as the Luftwaffe themselves stopped using the term for new designs after 1938. Some lazy publishers, confused by what was actually used, incorrectly labeled post-1938 Messerschmidt designs as "Bf", and got copied by other publishers ad-naseum since. However, if you go by what the Germans themselves used during the war, the "Me" designation is correct for every plane/model designed after 1938 by the Messerschmidt company... Such as the very common Me-109E-K.
09camaro
Rules 1 + 2!!
ok. i was confused. however, the early model 109's used the Bf designation right?
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
The Bf-109A through Bf-109D used the term "Bf"... however, realize they were all very limited production runs (used mostly in Spain during the Civil War)... the Me-109E was pretty much the standard front-line fighter at the start of the Polish campaign in 1939 and all subsequent models during the war.
Ambreville
Deity
There's a web site that pontificates on the issue of Bf. vs. Me. and dispels a lot of the mystique of pitting one prefix versus the other.
Click Here or Clicken Sie Hier for details.
I checked William Green's Warplanes of the Third Reich. Probably as a matter of editorial consistency and clarity, W. Green retains the Bf prefix for all aircraft that started out with it, and switches to Me for all the subsequent models, starting with Me. 163. I used that format as well, at the very least for the sake of alphabetical sorting!
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
Funny me... I prefer to go by what the Luftwaffe used during the war... from most reports, it goes "Me"... though I know some things lingered with "Bf".
Ambreville
Deity
Thus incurring the question from the little "Bf" guy jumping up and down: "What about me?"
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
Ambreville
Deity
Actually, even the Luftwaffe waffled over the two prefixes. Look at the document below which is a loss report issued by the Luftwaffe. It lists "Bf 109 G-6" rather than "Me.109 G-6".
Attachments
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
What you don't see is that the guy who wrote that was sumarily taken out back and shot... the next guy typed "Me".
There's documents showing both... I know... but according to Messerchsmidt AG, it should read "Me" after 1938 design work.
There's documents showing both... I know... but according to Messerchsmidt AG, it should read "Me" after 1938 design work.
Ambreville
Deity
In your obviously well-informed opinion of course.
...which was my point: they waffled. Meaning they used either inconsistently, just like the Nazi government, just like Messerschmitt A.G.
Ambreville
Deity
Even Messerschmitt A.G. waffled. Look below in a document dated 1943.
Attachments
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
Case closed...
Ambreville
Deity
Couldn't agree more!
