Upcomming patch ruining the game?

[Roland Ehnström]

The point of the blind resources is not that you didn't know that horses were there pre-AH. It's that you didn't know they were useful. Thus, the presence or absence of the creatures wouldn't have infuenced your peoples' decisions on where to settle.

Word!

-- Roland

 

[Roland Ehnström]

My question is, why did they make sugar, bananas, etc. visible?

Because people can eat those things without needing a plantation. A plantation just increases the output. Horses, however, are basicly useless (and therefore doesn't in any way determine where the people will settle down) before you know how to tame them.

For this reason it makes a lot of sense to reveal Bananas, Sugar and other food resources from the start, but only reveal Horses with the advent of Animal Husbandry.

-- Roland

 

[Astax]

The reason is that people probably still ate those products before they developed technology to commercialize it on a grand scale.

 

[Paradigne]

Yes, and until they learned they could ride them... they probably ate the horses....

 

[dh_epic]

Building on a Gold plains hill is uber - you get 2 hammer 2 food 2 commerce from turn one. And +1 happiness once you get mining - without waiting for The Wheel and roads!

You would get the same tile benefit from just working the gold tile outside of your actual city tile. Getting the happiness without having to build a mine would be a small benefit, but not significant enough. You wouldn't hit that happiness barrier soon enough for it to matter, and even one population point doesn't measure up to the horse exploit.

Building on horses is uber. Not because of a tile bonus or happiness. But because it allows you to rush your opponent before they even have a CHANCE to defend. It's the killer strategy. The one true path. It's so powerful that no other choice is viable.

 

[MrCynical]

Building a city on a gold mine is a REALLY bad idea. You're throwing away a hammer and about 6 commerce a turn for the rest of the game!

 

[Astax]

Yes, and until they learned they could ride them... they probably ate the horses....

Horse steak MMMmmmmm. Probably naturally lean too! Since horses run as opposed to cows which, well...

 

[GenericUsername]

I seriously can't believe those bastards are trying to fix the game. The effrontery I say. The effrontery!

Moderator Action: And how may one know these changes are not for the better, if you had not played the game? You can disagree all you want, but do so in a way which reflects the forum rules. Calling people bastards goes against that exactly. Warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Not that I want to question the ever-perfect moderation team... but don'cha think that may just have been ironic? Perhaps?

 

[JudgeDeath]

Oh dear. Irony is clearly beyond some people. Isn't that ironic?

 

[Draax]

Oh dear. Irony is clearly beyond some people. Isn't that ironic?

Definition: Irony - adj. indicating a lack of wrinkles. Ex. "After I finished pressing my clothes they were all irony."

 

[jimkirk]

This is my interpretation too. After all, you can build a mine on the place where Iron WOULD be... but you'd see this really hard metal and say "damn, there's no way I can use this, it's too hard to shape it into anything!"

Maybe they hid all strategic resources before, but then they switched it up at the last minute? It's impossible to know. Balance is never 100% perfect. That's why there are patches and debates and so forth.


Potential Exploit

The problem with making any strategic resource visible right from the start is that the player can settle directly on the resource. This is smarter than building a worker, working the resource, and building a road to it. You may lose a turn at the beginning by moving your settler, but you save as much as 20 turns without requiring a worker. 20 turns can be a HUGE advantage for an early rush.

People were doing it with horses, imagine you could do it with copper. Chariots were showing up when other people had barely finished their first archer. Imagine that happened with axes. Not only was it impossible to counter, but it was ensuring that there were no other valid choices on the tech tree except to gun it for horses.

It's smart that they hid all strategic resources until a prerequisite technology. I don't know why they didn't do it sooner.

i agree with you except i will say a little further i also wish the computer ai was blind to the resources as we are untill they research it

 

[GTFrank]

Of course Im angry! Animal Husbandry reveals horses? It's like OMG I lived here for 20 years and I never saw these ton+ creatures on four leggs.

Hey, Dude, you got some problems in language devices. "reveal", in the game, means "make useful of". Now, try re-reading the sentence.

 

[Chinese American]

Persians might get an advantage. they get agriculture and hunting right off the bat, so their first research can be animal husbandry. not only that, their UU requires horses, so it behooves them to find horses early.

 

[4_HoTA]

I think that horses and all pasture animals should be able too be seen regardless of for what use (horses could be taken as a food resource before animal husbandry is researched..ect) simply for the fact that they can be seen (they have no supernatural abilities too hide from plain veiw),though in saying that the patch update makes little difference for me as i thoroughly enjoy the game.

 

[abbamouse]

Mmmmmm premature criticism. Mmmmmmmmm........

 

[HounddogLGS]

You Don"t Have To Install The Patch If You Don't Want To, Or You Can Easily Mod Your Game So You Can See Horses, So What Are You Whining About?!

 

[Heroes]

Persians might get an advantage. they get agriculture and hunting right off the bat, so their first research can be animal husbandry. not only that, their UU requires horses, so it behooves them to find horses early.

Gees, I am using the current version and find Persia amazingly strong for early rush, -- if you find horse and neighbor nearby. This patch would be very sad for Persia and Egypt.

 

[Clown2TheLeft]

I got a giggle out of behooving the Persians. Heh.

The Clownboy speaks on the The Great Horse Debate:

Overcome. Adapt. Prevail.

NEXT!


I'm more concerned with the stability issues. Here's hoping this alleged patch will fix them.


Later!

--The Clown to the Left

 

[Zertez]

Making horses not visible until AH is the wrong way to fix the problem or any other always visible resources. The problem is you can exploit the system and not need to work the resource to gather it. Make it so you have to work the resource, city or not. I dont really want to see the resource disappear if you build on it, but you shouldnt be able to gather without working the tile. If you get lucky and horses reveal on the city after AH, the problem still exists. It may not happen often, but still it lingers.

 

[blueinf]

I think they should be visible as people develop technologies to use the ressources found nearby.

In a continent without horses, i guess NOBODY would have searched animal husbandry ? You actually try to ride them because you can see them, you do not try to ride some inexistant animal then once you know how to ride it, it will appear. Makes sense ? Isn't it ?