Usa #1 ?!?!

[kiwitt]

Also, the USA technically has free healthcare.

So you can be taken into a hospital if you have an accident and not have to pay a thing afterwards, either via health premiums or direct billing by the hospital. BTW: Our mean tax rates are less than USA as well, so that isn't paying for it either.

 

[Traitorfish]

For some people, it seems like finger wagging about America has turned into a glorified hobby. I suppose it gives them a sort of smug satisfaction.

Well, given that America has been finger-wagging Europe since 1776, it's about time we got a turn.

 

[GamezRule]

But Europe has been a bad continent!

 

[Lillefix]

Inconceivable!!!

 

[NovaKart]

Does the OP have anything constructive to add or is it just, the USA is terrible, terrible terrible. Besides, I seem to remember him starting other threads on pretty much the same topic. Perhaps if he would focus on one issue and make it more of a constructive dialogue instead of this constant chastisement. If he thinks America is so terrible he should just be thankful he doesn't live there and get over it.

Moderator Action: Infraction for multiple posts in the thread, including this one. Discuss the points, not the poster.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Abegweit]

Not bailing out the banks would have resulted in a major economic depression. And that would be extreme violence against the poor. So I act to prevent extreme violence. As any responsible person would.

Really? So stealing from people is helping them? A remarkable claim.

Also remarkable is the idea that theft prevents depressions. I submit to you that it is far more likely to be the cause.

Perhaps you might like to try to find some sort of argument to support these strange hypotheses instead of simply stating them as though they were proven facts.

 

[Cutlass]

Really? So stealing from people is helping them? A remarkable claim.

Also remarkable is the idea that theft prevents depressions. I submit to you that it is far more likely to be the cause.

Perhaps you might like to try to find some sort of argument to support these strange hypotheses instead of simply stating them as though they were proven facts.

Considering that most of the money is paid back, there's not much of an accusation of theft you can make. Now the depression you would prefer would cost trillions in stolen money from people.

And they are proven. By everyone who knows economics. You're the one making radical claims. So the burden of proof is on you. Only you can't. Because of the utterly and completely discredited nature of the people you follow.

 

[carmen510]

Well here are my top 5

1: Proportional Representation - USA does not have this.
2: Quality of Life - USA cities are not even in the top 30
3: Free public Healthcare for all citizens and permanent residents - USA does not have this
4: Free Pension, equal to 60% of the average wage - USA has ??!?!?
5: NZ is first equal with lowest corruption - USA is not even in the top 20

1. New Zealand has a different political system (parliamentary), which is more conducive to proportional representation than our two-party political system. Indeed, some state constitutions have essentially made it unconstitutional to circumvent single-winner districts. In addition, it would cause conflicts with how we elect our president. New Zealand doesn't directly vote for its prime minister, but we do in the United States. A system that would lead to several chief executives is not really a good idea.

2. Quality of Life is not always a good indicator of the personal preferences of people. I've gone to Vienna, most of the Canadian cities, Paris, and Brussels. They are all fantastic cities to live in, but they're not really for me. I live in New York City and prefer its multicultural hustle-and-bustle. Vienna is gorgeous and peaceful, but I prefer a more exciting life and fewer stares (I'm Asian). Paris is beautiful and has the multicultural hustle-and-bustle, but I've experienced more crime and racism there than in NYC; plus, there's a language barrier. The Canadian cities are nice and the people are very friendly, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of opportunities for what I would like to do.

3. Americans have an aversion to taxes and government regulation, which is why a public healthcare system for all has never really been popular. You would have to fault the American people for that, not simply the country.

4. We have pensions, and they've been bankrupting our state governments. That's probably a good indicator of how generous our politicians have been when it comes to the elderly. You also forget about stuff like Social Security, the higher wages, and the fact that Americans tend to spend more.

5. Check your source. That's simply a perceived corruption index, which only takes into account public opinion. The anti-government and anti-bailout/business rhetoric contribute to the public perception of corruption in the United States. I admit there's quite a lot of corruption in places like Louisiana, Las Vegas, and Chicago. However, as a whole, the United States is still less corrupt than the vast majority of the world. Even then, most of the corruption manifests from stuff like kickbacks on local contracts and not bribery of public officials like judges or police officers by private citizens.

 

[Abegweit]

We can always rely on people outside of the United States to report faithfully, and without bias, on the situation. Believe it or not, and I can speak from experience, we aren't living in a Mad Max corporatist-apocalypse hellhole.

No we are not. The key difference between the US and the rest of the world is not about some sort of unfettered capitalism. The American government fetters capitalism every bit as much as European governments do. The difference is that Americans have a black-and-white approach to the world. Some people are good and others are bad. The good can do no wrong and the bad deserve every punishment that the good inflict on them. American prisons are bursting their seams because Americans just love punishing miscreants. Americans bomb brown people because the bad guys deserve it. Of course, in the American liturgy they are never the bad guys. Cowboys: good. Injuns and others who resist American hegemony: bad.

That's Detroit.

Detroit is a city that has been destroyed by greedy unions and bureaucrats. I don't watch TV so I don't really know Mad Max. However I doubt that this is the subject of the program. Isn't it something about advertising execs? Certainly not about the evil that unions and bureaucrats inflict on people. You never see that on TV.

 

[Narz]

Well, he's gotten you good and pissed, which is always pretty funny.

Well, this happens every so often, I get used to a fairly intelligent, civil level of discourse here & raise my expectations accordingly & then bam.

Also, the USA technically has free healthcare.

The USA does not have free healthcare.

One thing the US does have is pretty damn cheap gas. It dropped below $3/gal some places in New Jersey. I'm never happy to see this though even though I drive because it dampens motivation to find alternative fuels & build up public transport.

No we are not. The key difference between the US and the rest of the world is not about some sort of unfettered capitalism. The American government fetters capitalism every bit as much as European governments do. The difference is that Americans have a black-and-white approach to the world. Some people are good and others are bad. The good can do no wrong and the bad deserve every punishment that the good inflict on them. American prisons are bursting their seams because Americans just love punishing miscreants. Americans bomb brown people because the bad guys deserve it. Of course, in the American liturgy they are never the bad guys. Cowboys: good. Injuns and others who resist American hegemony: bad.

Well, to be fair, the right-wing loves the "good/evil" dichotomy more than liberals.

 

[otago]

1. New Zealand has a different political system (parliamentary), which is more conducive to proportional representation than our two-party political system. Indeed, some state constitutions have essentially made it unconstitutional to circumvent single-winner districts. In addition, it would cause conflicts with how we elect our president. New Zealand doesn't directly vote for its prime minister, but we do in the United States. A system that would lead to several chief executives is not really a good idea.

2. Quality of Life is not always a good indicator of the personal preferences of people. I've gone to Vienna, most of the Canadian cities, Paris, and Brussels. They are all fantastic cities to live in, but they're not really for me. I live in New York City and prefer its multicultural hustle-and-bustle. Vienna is gorgeous and peaceful, but I prefer a more exciting life and fewer stares (I'm Asian). Paris is beautiful and has the multicultural hustle-and-bustle, but I've experienced more crime and racism there than in NYC; plus, there's a language barrier. The Canadian cities are nice and the people are very friendly, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of opportunities for what I would like to do.

3. Americans have an aversion to taxes and government regulation, which is why a public healthcare system for all has never really been popular. You would have to fault the American people for that, not simply the country.

4. We have pensions, and they've been bankrupting our state governments. That's probably a good indicator of how generous our politicians have been when it comes to the elderly. You also forget about stuff like Social Security, the higher wages, and the fact that Americans tend to spend more.

5. Check your source. That's simply a perceived corruption index, which only takes into account public opinion. The anti-government and anti-bailout/business rhetoric contribute to the public perception of corruption in the United States. I admit there's quite a lot of corruption in places like Louisiana, Las Vegas, and Chicago. However, as a whole, the United States is still less corrupt than the vast majority of the world. Even then, most of the corruption manifests from stuff like kickbacks on local contracts and not bribery of public officials like judges or police officers by private citizens.

Hmm some confusion, has the USA electoral college been dumped for presidential elections ?
Strange, we have universal health care yet our taxes are lower than the USA's.

 

[Abegweit]

Considering that most of the money is paid back, there's not much of an accusation of theft you can make. Now the depression you would prefer would cost trillions in stolen money from people.

Wow. Just so wow. TARP was all about shifting worthless assets from the banksters to the taxpayers. Remember what TARP stands for. What exactly did they pay back?

And they are proven. By everyone who knows economics.

Tiresome. Really tiresome. What is the proof? I honestly don't think you have the slightest idea about economics. Certainly you have never attempted to defend your position.

You're the one making radical claims. So the burden of proof is on you. Only you can't. Because of the utterly and completely discredited nature of the people you follow.

Radical? Radical? How exactly is denouncing theft something radical?

Moderator Action: "I honestly don't think you have the slightest idea about economics" is making it about the poster, not the post.

Infraction for this and several other posts in the thread.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Abegweit]

Well, to be fair, the right-wing loves the "good/evil" dichotomy more than liberals.

Bullcrap. The left wing denounces anyone who isn't PC enough and wants to use government power to take them out. No different from the right-wingers. Just a different target.

 

[Narz]

Bullcrap. The left wing denounces anyone who isn't PC enough and wants to use government power to take them out. No different from the right-wingers. Just a different target.

Come on, the right uses more emotional loaded words like "evil" or "enemy of freedom", stuff like that.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Bullcrap. The left wing denounces anyone who isn't PC enough and wants to use government power to take them out. No different from the right-wingers. Just a different target.

Since when have communists cared about who they offend?

 

[Abegweit]

Come on, the right uses more emotional loaded words like "evil" or "enemy of freedom", stuff like that.

Really? So racist and sexist are not emotionally loaded?

 

[Abegweit]

Since when have communists cared about who they offend?

I wasn't talking about that particular gang of lunatics.

AFAIK, most leftists aren't THAT crazy.

 

[Narz]

Really? So racist and sexist are not emotionally loaded?

Meh, do they really throw those around that much? Examples?

 

[Abegweit]

Meh, do they really throw those around that much? Examples?

Seriously. Of course they do. They are obsessed with it. Check out Useless' posts on the Ron Paul thread.

 

[Narz]

Seriously. Of course they do. They are obsessed with it. Check out Useless' posts on the Ron Paul thread.

I know, he always talks about how Ron Paul is racist but he's not a reporter. Maybe Rachel Maddow sells us-vs.-them as much as Bill O' Reily and friends (though I heard he retired, I admit I don't keep on top of Fox News, every moment being precious & all that ) but she's not as frothing-at-the-mouth about it.