v21 bugs and crashes

[DRJ]

The general issue is on my list, and hopefully will make it to the top before v22 is released (it's about 3rd atm). The lack of contact IMO is deliberate (and probably correct) because your rogue does not carry (to other players) the identity of your civ, so he can hardly start diplomatic contacts! Now, because Civ4 doesn't have a staged concept of 'contact' that separates diplomatic access from other aspects, this also means you don't have contact for espionage purposes (which does seem wrong). However, because contact is all-or-nothing we can't chnage one without changing the other, so with current mechanics IMO it's not a bug.

Confirmed now: once my rogue saw a russian hunter, russia was listed on the right side list. not so when he saw the general. So its the for AI invisible general that did not provide the contact and the real bug is that rogue unit can make contact, which should not be both sides, so if you see russia you would have their stats but as they didn't know the nationality of the rogue they know nothing about my civ and don't have stats about me.

 

[BlueGenie]

@Hydro: Poison still not set to include Hunter type units. This on latest SVN.

@Anyone on awesome team: Looked through the Handicap xml file and found what I think are strange notions:
1. AI growth/train/construct/build percentages go down with higher human difficulties. 160 for settler and 50 to 75 for Deity.
2. Animals have no UnownedWaterTilesPerGameAnimals setting. (Could this be why saltwater crocs are so common?) Also strikes me that higher probability of animals spawning is a good thing and yet the unowned tiles per animal goes down with higher difficulty so animals spawn less on easier difficulties.
3. Starting techs for AI and Human players per difficulty seems way of. Not sure if they are a remnant from AND/ROM but regardless of difficulty Fire Making seems a really high end tech to start with (can go for Shamanism/Druidism way fast, and Hunting too) as does Stone Tools. Grain Gathering I get though shouldn't the first techs be the ones given, not some later techs? (and maybe more of them on either end of the difficulty spectrum to make up for how cheap they are compared to later techs)

Cheers

 

[Koshling]

1. AI growth/train/construct/build percentages go down with higher human difficulties. 160 for settler and 50 to 75 for Deity.

This is correct. These are the modifiers applied to the COSTS side of the equation.

 

[strategyonly]

@Hydro: Poison still not set to include Hunter type units. This on latest SVN.

@Anyone on awesome team: Looked through the Handicap xml file and found what I think are strange notions:
1. AI growth/train/construct/build percentages go down with higher human difficulties. 160 for settler and 50 to 75 for Deity.
2. Animals have no UnownedWaterTilesPerGameAnimals setting. (Could this be why saltwater crocs are so common?) Also strikes me that higher probability of animals spawning is a good thing and yet the unowned tiles per animal goes down with higher difficulty so animals spawn less on easier difficulties.
3. Starting techs for AI and Human players per difficulty seems way of. Not sure if they are a remnant from AND/ROM but regardless of difficulty Fire Making seems a really high end tech to start with (can go for Shamanism/Druidism way fast, and Hunting too) as does Stone Tools. Grain Gathering I get though shouldn't the first techs be the ones given, not some later techs? (and maybe more of them on either end of the difficulty spectrum to make up for how cheap they are compared to later techs)

Cheers

Sounds like a good catch on these, do me a favor and put the Handicap.XML file the way, YOU think it ought to and i will do a 2 week test on it, hows that sound? Just send me the file, thx.

 

[imtheman]

Reverting back to 2053 solves the City list problem, but you lose the fixes from 2054-current, which includes some CTD fixes in revision 2071. I was getting lots of CTDs with 2053.

You can use SVN to bypass 2054. Bring your SVN back to Head, use Show Log, right click 2054 and select "Revert changes from this revision". I have done this and the game launches and shows City lists, and also has fixes from revisions added since 2054, including the CTD fixes in 2071.

WARNING!!!
However while this is possible within SVN, I have no idea if this breaks something in the game or your SVN. After I did this my SVN how has a red exclamation icon, not the green OK check. (Using Tortoise 1.76). I have already had to blow away and re-load my SVN today (4.3G download). So for me I have a great game going and I want to avoid the CTD but also have the City lists, so I reverted 2054 and 2072, which appears related. But I am now playing a "home-rolled" customised game, so I won't report any issues unless I can re-create the same issue in the latest SVN build.

So I give this advice as "you can try this", but I cannot guarantee the advice is safe. YMMV!.

yeah, just copying the svn-folder and doing the reverting on the copy works, and might be advised.

 

[Shiawase]

Not a duplicate. If some one can come up with abetter name then that would solve the problem.

Currently

Judaism Shrine only built by Great Prophet - Solomon's Temple.
Great Wonder built by anyone - "The Temple of Solomon".​

Oh, but aren't they the names of the same building? AFAIK, there was only one building with that name in history. Or just there is need to give whatever name for two buildings with different stats? In second case, there was, for example, one more temple, though it was actually a replace of destroyed Solomon's temple: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple

Leonidas is a Hero and can build the related hero buildings, the 300 Spartans can be upgraded to a regular unit, with all its hero promotions.

Once again, isn't it the name of the same man, or Leonidas from "300 spartans" was not the only one? :O I understand that these two units have different stats, but they both represent one single historical person - this way we get an extra clone, which seems illogical to me.

One more question, not really related to topic. I remember, there are some more civs that are included in this mod, but for some reason just disabled somewhere (in some config file or something?). How can one bring it back into game? Tried searching forum, but found nothing related in an ocean of information.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

One more question, not really related to topic. I remember, there are some more civs that are included in this mod, but for some reason just disabled somewhere (in some config file or something?). How can one bring it back into game? Tried searching forum, but found nothing related in an ocean of information.

Keeping the civs up to date with C2C was difficult. StrategyOnly is adding some back in now. There are extra leader heads. Either way your starting civ is becoming less and less relevant in C2C as the nation you become is moving to be based on where you start and what you do.

@StrategyOnly are you going to make downloads from the SVN for the extra movies and leader heads? I know I have to describe how to get at them from the SVN in the Player How To documentation.

 

[BlueGenie]

@Shiawase: I think it might be that one unit represents Leonidas himself while the other represents his Spartans, the 300, and not Leonidas at all.

@SO:On #2, is there even a tag for unowned water tiles for animals? I get an error loading the game if I add that.

I want to increase the maintenances slightly but won't for your testing file. *wink*

@DancingHoskuld: Tengri and Voodoo are no longer fully modular, ever since Female Missionaries for both. This might be true for the other female missionaries you added, have not checked that. (just checked Asatru and Shinto and it's the same)
Also; Ghengis Khan want's Tengriism but it's not a dependency (or what it was you made it work with before). (and with checking Asatru and Shinto it's the same with those leaders prefering those too)

@Everyone and Anyone on Legend(wait for it...)ary Team:
1. Favourite religions for leaders might need going over. Most religions are missing, not a single leader having it as favourite, and some might want changing to one of the newer ones (Montezuma and Andeanism anyone?).
2a. The Tech Diffusion Global Defines file has a +15% boost when researching for every OR tech known for current research. Have you guys counted on that when adding techs with OR prereqs.? (basically sets +30% research speed on all techs with OR if one goes for both OR techs first.) This can be easily changed by defining 5 resp. 10 in the First and Additional IntVal's instead of 15 and 15. That makes it +5% if going there as tech leader and +15% if taking time to do other techs first. I've done that.
2b. Tech Diffusion file too; Welfare threshold. Considering more is more and that's what C2C has I feel that this number should be higher as every percent goes for that much longer in C2C compared to ROM/AND. 92% is what I feel would be a good number. With over 400 techs it still means that a quarter into the game a civ needs be 8 techs behind (in average) to get research welfare (instead of 12) and towards the end game it's more like 32 techs rather than 48.

That's it for now though I wouldn't mind trying my hand at creating the Fishing Village line improvement if the Team are ok with that?

Cheers

 

[Koshling]

That's it for now though I wouldn't mind trying my hand at creating the Fishing Village line improvement if the Team are ok with that?

Of course (speaking for myself at least)

 

[BlueTemplar]

I strive hard to get the 3rd ring due to the amount of hammers and extra commerce it tends to enable

Wouldn't that rather indicate that there's a balance problem with specialists? I haven't run the numbers, but to me it feels like that unless you get several specialist-enhancing wonders, the specialists are just a lot weaker compared to the worked tile yields than in the vanilla BTS...

 

[strategyonly]

I wouldn't mind trying my hand at creating the Fishing Village line improvement if the Team are ok with that?

Just like the Handicap, give it a go, thats what testing and help and ideas are all about, keep it up.

 

[BlueGenie]

Wouldn't that rather indicate that there's a balance problem with specialists? I haven't run the numbers, but to me it feels like that unless you get several specialist-enhancing wonders, the specialists are just a lot weaker compared to the worked tile yields than in the vanilla BTS...

Well, no, not really. Not with cities beyond size 40 (not hard, just time) as you can at most use 36 tiles so you'd have extra people as specialists, even with some buildings employing citizens. (a 60 city with 5 employed is still 14 specialists, not counting extra from buildings, and there are quite a few of those too.

Cheers

 

[DRJ]

Wouldn't that rather indicate that there's a balance problem with specialists? I haven't run the numbers, but to me it feels like that unless you get several specialist-enhancing wonders, the specialists are just a lot weaker compared to the worked tile yields than in the vanilla BTS...

Just take a philosophical civ and you won't say they are underpowered in C2C...

 

[Hydromancerx]

3. Starting techs for AI and Human players per difficulty seems way of. Not sure if they are a remnant from AND/ROM but regardless of difficulty Fire Making seems a really high end tech to start with (can go for Shamanism/Druidism way fast, and Hunting too) as does Stone Tools. Grain Gathering I get though shouldn't the first techs be the ones given, not some later techs? (and maybe more of them on either end of the difficulty spectrum to make up for how cheap they are compared to later techs)

I did not even know that was a feature for lower difficulties. Yeah they should start with at least Language and Nomadic Lifestyle since those are the first 2 techs.

EDIT: From the file he posted it looks like those are appropriate starting techs for Settler and Chieftain difficulty.

 

[strategyonly]

Just got another Revolution error:

Keeping the civs up to date with C2C was difficult. StrategyOnly is adding some back in now. There are extra leader heads. Either way your starting civ is becoming less and less relevant in C2C as the nation you become is moving to be based on where you start and what you do.
@StrategyOnly are you going to make downloads from the SVN for the extra movies and leader heads? I know I have to describe how to get at them from the SVN in the Player How To documentation.

Yeah i have alot and i mean alot of ideas about civs, i informed Hydro, what the civs were so he could get starting making the extra cultures required, but i did want to keep it a lesser known secret at the time, that i will be adding some more civs/leaderheads/etc.

@DH> You know i never even though abut putting them back in another download feature, goes to show you, it helps to have Great Team members.

Just going through alot lately, my Dad had another slight Heart Attack and now some kidney failure going on, and has been in the Hospital for the last 4 days



Got this error again:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BugEventManager", line 363, in _handleDefaultEvent
File "Revolution", line 565, in onBeginPlayerTurn
File "Revolution", line 652, in checkForRevReinforcement
File "Revolution", line 952, in doRevReinforcement
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for -: 'int' and 'NoneType'

 

[Shiawase]

Keeping the civs up to date with C2C was difficult. StrategyOnly is adding some back in now. There are extra leader heads. Either way your starting civ is becoming less and less relevant in C2C as the nation you become is moving to be based on where you start and what you do.

That is understood, of course. But as for civs, that were not deleted completely from mod, only removed from the available civ list - is there a way for me to put a desired one back?

BlueGenie, it actually has a word Leonidas in its name.

 

[strategyonly]

it actually has a word Leonidas in its name.

Yes but it reads: Leonidas - The 300 Spartans, its just another way of saying: Leonidas and the 300 Spartans

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@DancingHoskuld: Tengri and Voodoo are no longer fully modular, ever since Female Missionaries for both. This might be true for the other female missionaries you added, have not checked that. (just checked Asatru and Shinto and it's the same)
Also; Ghengis Khan want's Tengriism but it's not a dependency (or what it was you made it work with before). (and with checking Asatru and Shinto it's the same with those leaders prefering those too)

Cheers

Working on the female missionary missionary part of this.

The leader's religion is going to be more difficult. I don't think we have the ability to have OR favorite religions which is part of what we would need.

 

[Toffer90]

Started a game with 15 AI's on gigantic map, after 120 turns on snail speed 10 of them had been destroyed by barbarians, "Raging Barbarians" OFF of course. This has happened in my two latest games. Barbarians shouldn't be that organized IMHO.
(Barbarian World ON)

 

[charlesb96]

Started a game with 15 AI's on gigantic map, after 120 turns on snail speed 10 of them had been destroyed by barbarians, "Raging Barbarians" OFF of course. This has happened in my two latest games. Barbarians shouldn't be that organized IMHO.
(Barbarian World ON)

I have had it worse, where after 200 some odd turns, I win because all the other civs are destroyed. Not a fun win.