Value of Currency?

Hugethman

Chieftain
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Hello all

I am not entirely sure about what the value of currency is. It allows gold trading which is GREAT but often people talk about currency as being a bit of a life saver regarding economies that are crashing. I don't really see how.

If I have, say, 5 cities when I get currency thats +5 trade routes right? Which worse case scenario is +5 gold when I'm at 0%? That's not great really is it seeing as I can trade a cow for that now? :crazyeye:

Even at the upper end, You're looking at maybe +10 to +15 gold (Which would be great) with foreign trade routes. So is this the assumption people are making?

Thanks in advance!
 
No, the assumption people are making is the other ability which allows a city to generate wealth from hammers.
 
There are several points.
1. Traderouts. It's kind of standart to have 5-7 cities on a standart size map at the time when you got currency which means 10-20 commerce. If you still don't have foreign traderouts (which is outrageous) then get them ASAP.
2. Trade resurces for gold. You can get 10-30 gold from such trades depending on your neighbours and the land you managed to grab.
3. Build wealth. This varies in a rather wide range, but normally you empire should be able to produce at least 50 gold per turn this way.
4. You can beg gold. Allows to get hundreds immediatly under right circumstances. This is another reason to get AI's at pleased ASAP in addition to avoiding undesired DoW's.
Edit: and of course you can sell techs for gold.
 
Hello all

I am not entirely sure about what the value of currency is. It allows gold trading which is GREAT but often people talk about currency as being a bit of a life saver regarding economies that are crashing. I don't really see how.

If I have, say, 5 cities when I get currency thats +5 trade routes right? Which worse case scenario is +5 gold when I'm at 0%? That's not great really is it seeing as I can trade a cow for that now? :crazyeye:

Even at the upper end, You're looking at maybe +10 to +15 gold (Which would be great) with foreign trade routes. So is this the assumption people are making?

Thanks in advance!
+10 gold can make the difference between being at 0% tech and losing money, and being at 0% tech and making money. That's a big difference!
 
Apart from food techs, Currency is arguably one of the most important technologies in the game. As Anysense has listed up, the new possibilities are enormous. The trade routes are good in themselves, but that's not the main benefit of Currency.
 
Also good is that the AI is usually late to tech it, so you can immediately use it for trade if needed.
 
IMO Currency is the most important tech in the game ..at least for most games. The trade routes are important and keep in mind that that boosts your overall beaker output as well from the increase commerce of trade routes. I'd say the #1 thing is the gold you get from trading resources for GPT and techs for chunks of gold. Two very important things in the game is your overall beaker output for research and the ability to fund said research. The arrival of Currency is really a pivotal point in the game in terms of research and possible continued expansion or conquest. Grabbing chunks of gold and GPT allows one to fund that research longer at 100% and get those crucial techs.

So yeah, getting gold is the main thing. Building wealth is generally the least important thing, except maybe in the case of fast conquest games where you are desperate to fund the end game. Otherwise, generally building wealth or research is likely taking away from more important builds,but certainly can be used as needed.
 
It's good, but Currency should not be seen as "always get there first".
Assuming we take standard games, not UU rushes and so.

I usually bring Code of Laws and failgold techs as examples.
Situations like being Phi, or maybe having Pyras, or sometimes even just SPI would be enuf..can make Caste System more powerful than
Currency.

Great Peoples are the greatest burst in standard games, and they also have one that brings plenty gold.
Under certain circumstances you are not using your full potential with aiming for Currency first when you could run 5 specialists (made up number, could be lower or even higher in big food cities) sooner.

Even Wastin Time was hugely impressed with his "wonder bread" economy, granted in huge HoF games Currency still plays it's big role (cos it scales with empire size and AI numbers), but that shows there are other impressive mechanics which can be used.

You cannot go wrong with Currency, it's always working..but you maybe can do better in your game if you know how :)
 
I think it's also depends a bit on the difficulty level. On deity pangaea you don't need to self tech currency often, it's possible to get via trade. Also you get some of the benefits of currency when they have it. On immortal (and probably 1-2 levels below it) I find it a very good tech as you are often ahead in tech and can a lot of get :gold: from religious techs etc. You also have much more room to expand and currency helps in that a lot. I think currency is one of the best techs to Oracle, if you can pull it off.
 
Thanks sincerely for the replies.

I admit usually to having the slider somewhere at 100% so I didn't realise that extra currency commerce was going straight into beakers and not my GPT :lol:

I agree also with the idea of being in the red zone and the green making a big difference. For example, I am playing a game with Cyrus ATM and UU rushed like, four cities and built a few so now I have seven, economy was understandably tanking, but currency has helped enormously.
 
2. Trade resurces for gold. You can get 10-30 gold from such trades depending on your neighbours and the land you managed to grab.
How much should I be expecting for each excess resource? Like at least 5gpt each?
 
How much should I be expecting for each excess resource? Like at least 5gpt each?

Early on when the AI doesn't have much land or an economy, they'll not have much gpt you can fetch for excess resources. But a little later you can get for instance 5 :gold: if you sell them a resource. Keep checking the resource and tech trading screens. I do this every turn, and it's a good practice. One turn an AI may have 0 GPT on offer, and the next he has adjusted the slider and can have 5+ :gold: per turn.

It can also be worth it to try to renegotiate deals, if you for instance is getting 3 GPT for a resource and there is another 3 GPT available. You may be able to get 6 GPT, but the slider can also be adjusted and suddenly there is 0 GPT. Frustrating, and it happens, but I'd say that more often you can get more for your resources.

Trading away valuable resources like copper, iron, marble or stone can be very lucrative as well - although not always (I've seen offers of fish for marble for instance, which is beyond crap). This can even be a strategic choice, if you for instance is next door to an AI you plan to DoW, and you hope he will build some wonders for you :evil:
 
Another good use of Currency is to sell them techs, particularly the minor religious techs shortly after getting Currency. With some luck, each AI has 100+ gold, and you can get maybe 1000 :gold: over a few turns by trading them Priesthood, Poly, Meditations and such. If they get a pile of failgold from a wonder..... woot! :D
 
Pangaea is exactly right. Right after Currency (or if AI(s) get it first) look for opportunities to trade for whatever GPT you can get. Sometimes it's just 1 or 2 gpt at first but gradually AIs will get more. You can renegotiate resource trades every 10 turns, so this is something you should check on frequently. However, note that it is better to renegotiate with..say..AI X when they have more than just 1gpt more available. Reason is that this more than likely ensure you get the full benefit when you cancel the trade to renegotiate, as sometimes when you do this they will suddenly offer no GPT at all that turn.

For example:

You are trading a fish to Nappy for 1gpt. In 10 turns, he has no extra gpt available. In 15 turns, he has 1 gpt available. Don't renegotiate yet. 17 turns he has 2gpt available. Cancel and renegotiate for what should be 3GPT

Of course, the times of all this and the GPT available by a given AI may fluctuate dramatically, but regardless you renegotiate a single trade very 10 turns

Also, feel free to trade extra resources available if more GPT is available. So you traded fish to Nappy for 1gpt. A few turns later he has another 1 or 2gpt available. You have an extra corn. Trade it for the extra gpt.

Of course, make sure you trade for any happy or health resources you need as well to make you cities better..mainly happy as it is generally more important. Just note the health situation. A little unhealth is okay, so I would trade for GPT before a health resource if my cities are fine..and even better when you are EXP as you have a lot of heatlh to work with anyway.

So, in other words, as far as GPT, you can renegotiate every 10 turns, but that does not mean it is necessarily an opportune time to do so at that moment. The point is that you should always be tracking this on the resource diplo screen so you know when more GPT is available. You always want that extra gold.

Probably not a good idea to cancel trades when an AI is in anarchy either so note when the change civics or religions on that turn...spiritual AIs excluded.

Lastly, trade with as many AI as you can ..get all there gold. Just be aware of the diplo situations and Worst Enemy, if you are concern about pissing someone off.
 
Maybe this is strange but I also follow order what resources I trade 1st and what I trade last (if no other option left). Supermarket stuff 1st (Pig/Deer/Cow/Sheep), Grocer stuff 2nd (Banana, Spices, Sugar, Wine), Granary stuff next (grains), Market stuff (except Ivory - I don't want AI to have WElephants) next and Forge stuff as last :) Copper for sure if AI has Iron and Horses (already can go for me so it won't change potential attack chance).
 
Hello all

I am not entirely sure about what the value of currency is. It allows gold trading which is GREAT but often people talk about currency as being a bit of a life saver regarding economies that are crashing. I don't really see how.

If I have, say, 5 cities when I get currency thats +5 trade routes right? Which worse case scenario is +5 gold when I'm at 0%? That's not great really is it seeing as I can trade a cow for that now? :crazyeye:

Even at the upper end, You're looking at maybe +10 to +15 gold (Which would be great) with foreign trade routes. So is this the assumption people are making?

Thanks in advance!
The trade routes help most when your economy is under more stress. If you are doing a good job of balancing your expenses gaining a trade route per city doesn't seem like much. When you are in the middle of economy-wrecking war or have REXed so hard you are hemorrhaging gold even at 0% slider, every little bit helps. The effect is also more pronounced when you have more cities, as each of your own cities can route to each other without a limit unlike foreign cities, though foreign cities give more.

As rah stated in the immediate reply, it's actually the ability to build wealth that helps you most to alleviate economic pressure. It can be difficult to have enough developed cottages in the early game stages to offset expenses of a large army or massive maintenance, but being able to also throw any hammers the city generates from its tiles directly into gold at a 1:1 ratio (commerce is only 1:1 at 0% slider) helps a ton when it supplements your taxed commerce income. Really it's similar to using wonders for fail-gold, but you can do it constantly instead of banking for a payoff later. This is an extreme simplification of fail-gold abuse, but the idea is the same: avoid going broke by turning hammers into gold (not commerce). The trade routes are mostly icing on top of that, minor but nice.

If you are going to war or running heavily in the red trying to score a particular tech, the option to trade off techs for a lump sum can also be a lifesaver to prevent strike. You can go to war heavily in deficit at 0% and use conquest gold and selling tech to keep up the momentum, or you can blast at 100% slider to secure something you really need (ex. Construction or HBR before going on an elepult push). The advantage to this is, if you have the tech to sell off, you can essentially focus on building other things with your hammers (like military, or wonders you actually want to complete) and simply pick up gold when other civs come into money. They are always picking up cash from failing to build wonders or warring with each other, and you can snag it to fuel your economy with trading chips. Very handy.

The resource trading for GP is something I don't do a whole lot since you generally need a good chunk of land to have resources beyond what you can trade for other ones you need, but along with the +1 trade routes, every little bit helps in a stressed economy. If you have the surplus resources and they have the GPT, you might as well take it, right?. It will also eventually give you up to +2 diplo bonus with them if you maintain it long enough and they don't have to have a resource you don't have to take advantage of this. In times of less hardship, there is also an aggressive trading strategy you can use to artificially increase the amount they'll pay for a resource if you have the spare income and 10 turns to spare subsidizing them GPT. It always seems way too involved for me to bother though.

Currency is a very important tech indeed. It comes along right about the time your economy is likely to be most stressed and helps you dig out. Surviving or avoiding a crash is key to allowing you get what you want done instead of sitting there losing units to strike and working water tiles waiting for your cottages/pop to catch up. It's so important I agonize in most of my games about whether to go tech/bulb Alpha first or Math> Currency then tech/trade for Alpha after Writing.
 
Code of Laws and Currency have different impacts on economy: Code of Laws deals with (reducing) expenses, Currency deals with (increasing) income (both GTP and surplus).
Granted, Code of Laws' Caste System could be treated as income, presuming you run merchant specialists, but the science income booster (library) is way cheaper and comes much earlier.

City upkeep expenses, apart from distance from palace and # of cities, are also based on population and civics. If you whip cities to very low sizes, courthouse (and Organized trait) effectiveness plummets, especially compared to Currency's benefits which offers alternative sources of income to working tiles or running specialists. This is why Currency is better for post-rush recovery, at least in most scenarios.

In post-rush recovery, Darius is king of the hill :)
 
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