Venice

[Funak]

If you're willing to bother, then different types of yields on the luxuries would be great.

Basically, its a UI that goes straight on top of luxuries. It isn't technically a [insert normal improvement type here] so it won't work with some beliefs/policies/whatever, but perhaps we need a reason to not build it on every luxury ever, yeah?

Might actually let it trigger off all pantheons, might be overpowered, but we're talking about Venice here.

As for yields I think just going with a standard model is easier, and probably fairer.

Well Guilds seems like the most appropriate place thematically, and that would help with their scaling issue for not having a huge empire all the time (some free yields to the UA might be necessary...or just give the MoV a unique town). That might not be the best place gameplay-wise though. I don't have the tech tree in front of me right now

I'm not even sure a guild is the right word we're looking for, but anything I can think of unlocks around medieval or early renaissance.

Yeah some adjustment of the UA would probably be required.

 

[Gazebo]

If you're willing to bother, then different types of yields on the luxuries would be great.

Basically, its a UI that goes straight on top of luxuries. It isn't technically a [insert normal improvement type here] so it won't work with some beliefs/policies/whatever, but perhaps we need a reason to not build it on every luxury ever, yeah?

Building on luxuries is fine, but it'd always provide the same set of yields (there's no code for x resource + y improvement = z yield, and that's not really feasible). This is why I'm reluctant to do it, as I don't think it'd end up feeling all that unique, truth be told. You'd either always want to place it (and thus caps, which aren't feasible, are needed) because of how strong it is, or you'll never want to because of how weak it is.

Also, the fact that Venice lacks control over where CSs settle their cities means that your UI's utility is actually not yours to control.

Food for thought.

G

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Also, the fact that Venice lacks control over where CSs settle their cities means that your UI's utility is actually not yours to control.

Food for thought.

G

This why I prefer a UI that claims outlying resources rather than one you build on top of resources.

 

[PurpleMentat]

I'm poking the relevant people about model work. Going to need a description to give them.

 

[Funak]

Building on luxuries is fine, but it'd always provide the same set of yields (there's no code for x resource + y improvement = z yield, and that's not really feasible). This is why I'm reluctant to do it, as I don't think it'd end up feeling all that unique, truth be told. You'd either always want to place it (and thus caps, which aren't feasible, are needed) because of how strong it is, or you'll never want to because of how weak it is.

What's wrong with always wanting to build it? That's how all other UIs work. I mean if you have a hill you want a terrace farm on it, if you have a river tile you want a polder on it.

Also, the fact that Venice lacks control over where CSs settle their cities means that your UI's utility is actually not yours to control.

Food for thought.

This why I prefer a UI that claims outlying resources rather than one you build on top of resources.

Good points, but it's fair to point out that the other UI suffers from the exact same level of lack of control. Also city-states in CPP seems to be fairly good at grabbing luxuries.

I'm poking the relevant people about model work. Going to need a description to give them.

Going to need a name first Kinda hard figuring out how something should look if we don't know what we want.

 

[Gazebo]

What's wrong with always wanting to build it? That's how all other UIs work. I mean if you have a hill you want a terrace farm on it, if you have a river tile you want a polder on it.





Good points, but it's fair to point out that the other UI suffers from the exact same level of lack of control. Also city-states in CPP seems to be fairly good at grabbing luxuries.



Going to need a name first Kinda hard figuring out how something should look if we don't know what we want.

Well, if you always want to build it, that conflicts with what GamerKG stated. I'm fine with that, but that's not what he was stating.

Anyways, a UI themed around Ducats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducat seems appropriate. The Mint (as a building) no longer exists, so a Mint UI could be fun. The Ducat was an incredibly influential currency and our buddy Enrico tried himself to issue a silver Ducat to compete with the gold Ducat.

Mmm...mint. I need a tictac.

G

 

[Funak]

Well, if you always want to build it, that conflicts with what GamerKG stated. I'm fine with that, but that's not what he was stating.

Anyways, a UI themed around Ducats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducat seems appropriate. The Mint (as a building) no longer exists, so a Mint UI could be fun. The Ducat was an incredibly influential currency and our buddy Enrico tried himself to issue a silver Ducat to compete with the gold Ducat.

Mmm...mint. I need a tictac.

I really don't think limiting the UI to mintable luxuries would be very fun for anyone.

As far as wanting to build it, I think always wanting to build it should be totally fine. You could possibly restrict it so it can't be built next to itself, but that just sounds unfair to some starts. Luxuries aren't exactly common enough that you need a harder restriction on the UI.

 

[Gazebo]

I really don't think limiting the UI to mintable luxuries would be very fun for anyone.

As far as wanting to build it, I think always wanting to build it should be totally fine. You could possibly restrict it so it can't be built next to itself, but that just sounds unfair to some starts. Luxuries aren't exactly common enough that you need a harder restriction on the UI.

You silly muffin, I didn't say they had to be mint-able resources.

G

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Yes, Ducat would be a good name for a Market or Bank UB, but not a UI.

Venice had an awesome shipyard, but it was called The Arsenal. Too bad that name already goes to a generic building because it would be a good UB harbor.

Glassworks could work for a Market or Bank UB as well.

 

[Funak]

You silly muffin, I didn't say they had to be mint-able resources.

Anyways, a theme would be required. Gold and culture is probably a given, the question is what else the improvement should give. I'm leaning towards food or production as generally useful yields that you actually want in your puppets, but that doesn't seem very fitting.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Anyways, a theme would be required. Gold and culture is probably a given, the question is what else the improvement should give. I'm leaning towards food or production as generally useful yields that you actually want in your puppets, but that doesn't seem very fitting.

Production would fit a Glassworks UI.

 

[Gazebo]

Not the greatest name/idea for the UI, but we could do something a little more bland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frazione

Village/Hamlet theme makes sense if we're doing it as a pumped-up village or something.

G

 

[PurpleMentat]

Can an improvement be made buildable on resources, and adjacent to resources, and not adjacent to self?

 

[Gazebo]

Can an improvement be made buildable on resources, and adjacent to resources, and not adjacent to self?

It's a hard stop on any one of those, unfortunately. I'd have to do a lot of iteration loops to work around those hard stops.

G

 

[Funak]

Not the greatest name/idea for the UI, but we could do something a little more bland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frazione

Village/Hamlet theme makes sense if we're doing it as a pumped-up village or something.

I'm thinking something that extracts value out of a resource, I guess a village would do that to some degree, as would a trading-station, but I'm not sure.

 

[Atlas627]

Building on luxuries is fine, but it'd always provide the same set of yields (there's no code for x resource + y improvement = z yield, and that's not really feasible). This is why I'm reluctant to do it, as I don't think it'd end up feeling all that unique, truth be told. You'd either always want to place it (and thus caps, which aren't feasible, are needed) because of how strong it is, or you'll never want to because of how weak it is.

Also, the fact that Venice lacks control over where CSs settle their cities means that your UI's utility is actually not yours to control.

Food for thought.

G

It is a very good point that if they can't settle cities they aren't making decisions with a UI that does the same thing always. They'll want to conquer/buy places with more luxuries, but they already do.

What do you mean about not having x resource + y improvement = z yield? Isn't that what all improvements currently do? I'm not sure if its coded into the resource or into the improvement, but different resources totally provide different improved yields already.


The Ducat is pretty influential, though I can't think of anything reasonable to go with it (I can always come up with bizarre ideas though)

Glassworks is also pretty famous. Still can't think of anything good with that.

The Venetian Arsenal is also famous, but again doesn't do much for us.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Another UB name idea, Grand Canal for a Harbor.

 

[ExpiredReign]

Dipping my toes into the water again...
I still like the idea of the UI being able to claim territory and resources further afield than we can now.
What if the UI used some of the citadel's code to ensure it can't be built next to an existing one? That way you can't go on a mass territory spree.
The previous yield discussions on a UI sound fair to me but as I mentioned earlier sometimes you just need to claim a tile near to you but can't because you can't found/puppet/conquer a city that is near it.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

How about we turn Venice around and turn it into its opposite, Venotnice?

Let's replace Doge Palace with Great Galeass to make Venice as great as the galeass. Let's also replace Merchant of Venice with Greater Galeass. As UA, Venice gets no settler but gets instant 2 Great and one Greater Galeasses with March promotion and no Warrior so you can annoy other leaders by constantly reducing their capital HP to 1 with your impressive, impossible to counter in ancient/classical ranged attack.

Finally, replace Enrico Dandolo Leader Screen with a pixelated, upscaled picture of the Great Galeass.




(I do want Great Galeass back don't blame me)

 

[Atlas627]

Well Gazebo said we can only use a UI that is buildable IN owned lands. This makes a territory claimer that can't be adjacent to itself really hard to use. Letting it be adjacent to itself will create bloat and undesirably easy infinite expansion.

At the end of the day, since you have so little control over what lands you "settle", even a UI is limiting. Then again, I don't think the Kasbah is interesting either, but it does at least interact with purposely settling crappy lands because they get strong base yields, and also settling inland and with as few adjacent coast tiles as possible.


I'll keep thinking about it.