Wilhelm Meister
Warlord
I'm talking about Ironworks and national stock exchange (I'm not sure about the name of this last one though), as I think most relevant nations should have them.
Version 1.12 Objectives
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
National Wonders are one of the few things in this game that you can do to actively make your cities more distinct from each other. Removing them would make the game a lot less interesting IMO.
Although the effect of National Wonders could be reduced somewhat (by introducing appropriate Tech requirements in some cases) as they can be too powerful in Human hands.
List of modification ideas:
- Interpol: requires Radio
- Olympic Park: requires Nationalism and Corporations
- Opera House: -50%
from Population only- Stock Exchange: +75%
only, requires a city population of 16 or more- Summer Palace: requires Feudalism
Wilhelm Meister
Warlord
I agree with your post, but I don't think they're too powerfull and I think they shouldn't require 8 banks, forges etc as it forces you to expand when you don't really want to (at least I don't, because I like to play followiing historical sense).
mrrandomplayer
Hopeless Situation Warrior
I think those wonders are fine as they are, except something should be done about OCCing! Now that National Park has been nerfed waaaaaaaay to much, I can't just build National Park and Opera House when OCCing and ignore those problems for the rest of the game 
Wilhelm Meister
Warlord
National Wonders are one of the few things in this game that you can do to actively make your cities more distinct from each other. Removing them would make the game a lot less interesting IMO.
Although the effect of National Wonders could be reduced somewhat (by introducing appropriate Tech requirements in some cases) as they can be too powerful in Human hands.
List of modification ideas:
- Interpol: requires Radio
- Olympic Park: requires Nationalism and Corporations
- Opera House: -50%
- Stock Exchange: +75%
- Summer Palace: requires Feudalism
I disagree completelly with your ideas, those wonders doesn't need a nerf, it's the other way round! You can only have one of them after all!
And btw it's completelly pointless to only be able to build a stock echange in a city with a population of 16 or more, that would mean that many countries would not have a national stock exchanges irl and it's completelly pointless. I only think that you shouldn't need 8 cities to build them as it's not realistical in the game as even as Prussia you have to take many cities out of your core to have the required number of cities.
It would make sense to have different requirements for different civs, linked to historical empire size.
Would it be possible to define it more elegantly than a coded number of cities for each civ, though, and instead make them buildable if all Core territory is controlled, or maybe a certain % of Core and Historical combined? A general rule which is applicable to all civs but stops England and Maya needing the same number of cities to build National Wonders.
Would it be possible to define it more elegantly than a coded number of cities for each civ, though, and instead make them buildable if all Core territory is controlled, or maybe a certain % of Core and Historical combined? A general rule which is applicable to all civs but stops England and Maya needing the same number of cities to build National Wonders.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
There is no logic behind your argument since most civs can be carried to victory by just 1 supercity.
Are you actually German?
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I don't think that National Wonders should be removed. The do have a specific role.
Which NW did Rhye changed to WW? I know that the Leaning Tower is one, but IIRC, that is because the Triumphal Arch replaces it's function. I can't think of any other NW (ATM).
I don't think they should be tuned down however. They are strong, but IMO, not unbalancing strong.
But the 8 city requirement could be improved in one way or another.
A brainrush I recieved during typing this post. (I just wanted to write it down. It's not really a suggestion. But it could be one if you like it)
Which NW did Rhye changed to WW? I know that the Leaning Tower is one, but IIRC, that is because the Triumphal Arch replaces it's function. I can't think of any other NW (ATM).
I don't think they should be tuned down however. They are strong, but IMO, not unbalancing strong.
But the 8 city requirement could be improved in one way or another.
A brainrush I recieved during typing this post. (I just wanted to write it down. It's not really a suggestion. But it could be one if you like it)
Spoiler :
ales_
Heir
Moai, Mt Rushmore
I don't think that National Wonders should be removed. The do have a specific role.
Which NW did Rhye changed to WW? I know that the Leaning Tower is one, but IIRC, that is because the Triumphal Arch replaces it's function. I can't think of any other NW (ATM).
I don't think they should be tuned down however. They are strong, but IMO, not unbalancing strong.
But the 8 city requirement could be improved in one way or another.
A brainrush I recieved during typing this post. (I just wanted to write it down. It's not really a suggestion. But it could be one if you like it)
Spoiler :
Off the top of my head:
Oxford>WW (CERN)
Mt. Rushmore>WW
Moai>Cothon
Though which are RFC and which are DoC I don't remember anymore
NorwegianSalmon
Warlord
- Joined
- May 22, 2013
- Messages
- 151
Isn't Forbidden Palace a national wonder in vanilla too?
What about the requirement for national wonders from Civ 5? That is to have the prequisite building in every city. Not too sure about this myself though.
What about the requirement for national wonders from Civ 5? That is to have the prequisite building in every city. Not too sure about this myself though.
Yes, but we still have the summer palace
Wilhelm Meister
Warlord
First of all I'm not talking about gamey strategies etc, but more on a historical plausibility to the game features (if you didn't understand me yet) as I don't really care about winning a game with one supercity and things like that (for me these strategies would have nothing to do with historical plausibility, and so I would have no interest at all in any one of them).
I play this amazing mod (I can't get enough of praising your wonderful mod, Leoreth) specially because its proposal seems to be to relive history in a plausible way and that's the main reason behind all of my suggestions to the game. Last, but not least, what do you mean with the question about my nationality?
Wilhelm Meister
Warlord
"It would make sense to have different requirements for different civs, linked to historical empire size."
- Sebzilla.
I think that would solve everything for me. Is it actually possible?
- Sebzilla.
I think that would solve everything for me. Is it actually possible?
blizzrd
Micromanager
Why too powerful? As you later posted, it's not like they are 'must haves' to be able to win the game (by whatever means you happen to choose). If they were 'must haves' I could perhaps understand why they could be considered "too powerful", but they aren't.
I don't even remember the last time I built Interpol. Is it still in the game? I thought it was replaced with Lubyanka?
I already delay building this wonder until I absolutely need the Golden Age effect. If access to this national wonder is made later (by requiring two techs) I would still delay building it. I see no problem caused by the present situation in any case.
I have only built the Opera House in two circumstances:- Opera House: -50%
- Going for a Cultural Victory, for the extra +6 culture in one of my three main cities
- In a one-city-challenge game
Again, nothing wrong with the present situation. It is not overpowered, nor is it available too early.
Again, nothing wrong with the present situation. At least this wonder is worth building, unlike the Opera House. Your arbitrary 16 pop suggestion has no basis which is interesting considering you later posted this:- Stock Exchange: +75%
Interpol is useless anyways.
I agree with Blizzrd that the National Wonders aren't really that powerful, especially in the late game. I rarely bother to chase the ones requiring six of something. Like Blizzrd, I build the Opera House for the culture bonus, when needed. With the late civs, I usually don't even bother with the Stock Exchange, since I often skip banks. I find Summer Palace to be the most useful of them, but only when colonizing distant land masses early, with marble it is also quick to build. National Gallery (whatever it is called) is also useful in some cases.
I agree with Blizzrd that the National Wonders aren't really that powerful, especially in the late game. I rarely bother to chase the ones requiring six of something. Like Blizzrd, I build the Opera House for the culture bonus, when needed. With the late civs, I usually don't even bother with the Stock Exchange, since I often skip banks. I find Summer Palace to be the most useful of them, but only when colonizing distant land masses early, with marble it is also quick to build. National Gallery (whatever it is called) is also useful in some cases.
Wilhelm Meister
Warlord
The problem is that it isn't "six of something" and that was what my complaint was about, I think this number could be reduced to encourage people to stay in national core and play in a more historically plausible way. I agree with Mr. Blizzrd post and I agree that the national wonders are ok as they are, the only thing I think should be changed is the number "of something" requirement as I stated.
Afaik national wonders we added to Civ4 to achieve two purposes:
- more specialization to make specific cities your "science city" etc.
- to offer a nonscaling buff which mostly benefits small civs
The second bit has been turned upside down because most civs have to become expansionist before they can meet their goal. I think "all core cities need the prereq building" would be the most natural rule and fortunately I recently made core plots efficiently available in the DLL so this is actually possible. In this case I would like to bring back the first intention back to RFC as well and enable a science and military related NW again.
- more specialization to make specific cities your "science city" etc.
- to offer a nonscaling buff which mostly benefits small civs
The second bit has been turned upside down because most civs have to become expansionist before they can meet their goal. I think "all core cities need the prereq building" would be the most natural rule and fortunately I recently made core plots efficiently available in the DLL so this is actually possible. In this case I would like to bring back the first intention back to RFC as well and enable a science and military related NW again.
