Very quick noob SG

[GreyFox]

Meanwhile

our exploriing units have three encounters:
First, is a barbie ship at the northern island

Caravel defeats (2.55/3): Barbarian Galley
We won

Then, our soutrthern caravel reports unclaimed horses

Lastly, Saladin come cancelling our OB, resulting in a stranded explorer!
At the last turn, a caravel is on its way to rescue the explorer:

From the research department

We are the first to get Liberalism *pat on head of research*
I choose SciMeth, as it has the largest beaker count.
Plus we don't have any monastery as I recall, so effect of SciMeth obseleting monastry should not affect us.

We are also pleased to inform you that we traded Divine Rights for Engineering + Horseback Riding with Qin

In addition, Drama is in for theatres.

Lastly, we decide to pursue Economics for the free Great Merchant.


From the Military Department

With guilds researched, the training of Conquisatdor is under way.
One of them is about to graduate, so next player please remember to switch civis

Our military minister is sleeping, so he noticed until too late that one Axeman is still doing barb duty (for nothing) up north.

By the way, last report from northern caravel contains this: "Another barb ship in sight."


From the Spirtual Advisor
A monk is on the way to board a ship for overseas expat assignment!

 

[GreyFox]

Lastly

There is a peasant still available for command: Plan is to chop tree:

Before GreyStar descended the throne for the succession of bobrath, the world as we know it:

Our hemishpere:

The other hemishpere:

And, arise, Lord Bobrath, here is ypour throne for your succession:

 

[bobrath]

Looks good. I see that somehow Pisae still has no buddhism. Not a huge deal, its a nice to have for preparing for war. Since its back lines, it won't have much effect.

Why is it that my turns seem to be the ones where I gear up for war, but don't get the fun of destruction? pfft

I'll try to settle Horse Island (tm) soon. Ideal place would (I think) be on the forest south of the fish. One expansion later and we'll no longer rely on a foreign civ for our horse meat... I just hope we can grow it fast enough... prolly start it on a workboat (if we have some culture going there) first so when the expansion pop happens we can hook up the crabs/fish. I'll also take a worker down that way to get horses roaded and the stabled with the pop. OR would it be better to settle next to the horses and not get crab. OR settle on the horses and pick up the eastern crabs... Thoughts folks?

Religion wise, I'd love to pick up both Tok and Sala as converts, but with closed borders that's going to be tough. All the other Civs have holy cities and getting them to convert will be expensive (and even then they'll switch back).

oh yeah and GOT IT. And as usual I'll play when I get home tonight.

 

[GreyFox]

Sorry oldbustedjorn, too late for me (2:30AM) to do anymore screenies ... anyway the save is posted. I must sleep now ...

 

[Maquis]

Good set of turns there, with a great buildup to the war on JC!

One thing to point out, lets save the artist to use when we start taking JC out. I'd say use it when we take one of his core cities, Cumae or even Rome. One bomb there will give us most of the cultural land back.

Also, GreyFox mentioned it, but make sure we change civics back to Theocracy/Vassilage before starting to churn out the units. We'll need the extra promotions!

 

[Maquis]

On the horse island, I'd say put the city on the forest tile. Also, I agree we need a worker there ASAP, or it will take forever to grow, not to mention that we need him to hook up the horses. To get that first culture expansion, I'd say build (or whip) a theatre there first thing. After that, once the horses are hooked up, should be able to crank out a couple work boats pretty easily.

 

[bobrath]

Re: Great Artist

We could culture bomb Lyons, but if the short term plan is to take JC out are we really served by bombing Lyons? I'd almost say we're better off using the Artist to bring one of the bigger cities out of revolt OR to expand a beach-head when we decide to land on the other continent. At the start of Grey's turn, Lyons' population was 98% Roman... not sure how much a bomb will alter that (or what the ratio is currently).

There are religious differences on the other contient, so we should start looking into inciting a war or two over there. Esp if we can involve QSH, as it will slow down their tech progress and let us come in as a "benevolent friend" to whichever side we prefer. I'll check the diplo before I roll my first turn. Any thoughts or preferences on allies/enemies over there?

 

[Maquis]

Hard to say who we should keep as a friend. Looks like Saladin is already shying away from us (he closed his borders on us) He may be our first target, he's last in score? It be an easy foothold onto that continent.

I don't think Gengis or Tokagowa can be trusted very much... which pretty much leaves QSH.

I'd like to see the relations that they have with each other... it'd be nice to see if Gengis and Toka have gotten into wars already, since they have mixed borders...


I made the same point about the artist... use it for when we take Rome to pull it out of revolt and get some quick culture going.

 

[oldbustedjorn]

Sorry oldbustedjorn, too late for me (2:30AM) to do anymore screenies ... anyway the save is posted. I must sleep now ...

Actually what you posted is fine, I must have cross posted...

 

[GreyFox]

Abt Great Artist - Right abt the analysis of cultural bombing Lyons. I knew something is angging behind my back ... that's why I did not do it and save the GA. I am not too sure abt the overall benefit of having the artist to bring captured cities out of revolt.... we are definitely not in shortage of cities, so the artist might be more useful elsewhere. Perhaps for the captured of overseas cities is more useful than for capture of Roman cities.

In addition, we are in line for some free Great People -- one from the learning of Economics. We are also now capable of learning Physics --> Great Scientist. So the GA can be saved for a GA .... hmm: GA for GA? ... Great Artist for Golden Age)


Abt Ally... no, no McBeal, but ally as in allies! ... I think QSH is good ... and not as if we have a choice We are going for domination/conquest, so its okay (in fact better) for us to choose a strong ally. He will help in our war, ... and when the time is right, we backstab him . Only in diplomatic victory then we want to avoid choosing the second best as ally.


Abt Southern Crappy Horse City Its my fault, I never bring up the northern island in my report. I should have a screenshot

Anyway, it might be worthwhile to forget abt the southern crappy city and concentrate on the northern island, if there is horses there. The northern island is actually made up of two islands, with a width-1 canal separating them. There may be barb cities there though, cause our caravel had already reported two sightings of barbie ships circling the two islands.

Oh, and BTW, (if its not too late for bobrath), I had a city building settler in preparation of our ocean-faring colonization effort.

 

[GreyFox]

vq02 - Very Quick. Seems to fit this group well... At least it did when Greyfox was turning his turn around so quickly.... Fox wherefor art thou?

... sorry about that 1-day delay ... , but the next turnset should keep you busy


Abt VQ02 - I have not tried any huge-map, but may have problem though, since my comp at home has only 0.5G ram ... and my work laptop which has 1G ram has crappy graphics card (can't see movie ). A large map may be the limit for me. About Maquis idea: sounds interesting ... it at least relief us of generating dot-maps and arguing abt it So, the idea was to have a grid-like city placements. right?

I was pondering about it, and was thinking of something in continuation: Revenge of the French. We play as French and Spain as one of the AI civ. we must declare war upon meeting Isabella, and not rest until killing her.

Just to offer an alternative (in fact we can combined the two: kill Spain + perfect city placement ).

 

[Maquis]

Not to beat a dead horse, but in my experience, using the culture bomb with an old city still around just doesn't do much, witch is why I wouldn't use it on Lyons, at least not yet. We probably would only gain 4 tiles out of it, with all of JC's culture still around. I think that once we take out most of JC's cities, we use it just to get some land area under control quickly.

One of the things I was thinking of using for the next SG (if we go with the perfect city placement idea) would be to use a leader that fits the theme. I was thinking Expansive and Organized, (We want to expand, but are very organized in doing so) So... that would be our good friend Julius Ceasar

 

[bobrath]

And I've done as little damage as possible (while leaving the next person in great shape to hurt someone AS USUAL)...

Turn 227 (1585 AD)
User comment: Clams for 7gpt to QSH. We had extra, so now we get better income and a bit better partner
User comment: and a trade to saladin to try to get relations back. He wanted copper/stone but would pay even more for the non-military items Picked up Fur and Silver for us.
Caravel defeats (2.55/3): Barbarian Galley

Turn 228 (1590 AD)
Caravel promoted: Flanking I
User comment: Revolting turn before our first wave of death horses arrive
Tech learned: Economics
Hanno (Great Merchant) born in Madrid
User comment: So Now we have an Artist and a Merchant...
Barcelona finishes: Conquistador
Hurrian finishes: Conquistador
Santiago grows: 8
Orleans finishes: Theatre

Turn 229 (1595 AD)
Barcelona begins: Buddhist Missionary
Hurrian begins: Conquistador
Orleans begins: Buddhist Temple
Research begun: Gunpowder
User comment: Going with Gunpowder for the coming war.
User comment: Dont forget that Physics gives a free Great Scientist to first discover...
Madrid finishes: University
Seville grows: 12
Seville finishes: University
Toledo finishes: University

Turn 230 (1600 AD)
Madrid begins: Conquistador
Seville begins: Buddhist Missionary
Toledo begins: Buddhist Temple
Tech learned: Gunpowder
Barcelona finishes: Buddhist Missionary
Cordoba finishes: Conquistador
Salamanca's borders expand
Valencia finishes: Buddhist Temple

Turn 231 (1605 AD)
Research begun: Replaceable Parts
Barcelona begins: Conquistador
User comment: We need a bit more navy presence, just in case someone decides to help out JC. Not to mention we've got a barb harrasing our western island sea resources!!
Cordoba begins: Galleon
Valencia begins: Granary
User comment: Thanks to Saladin suddenly liking our civics - Theocracy... he's willing to open borders again
Seville finishes: Buddhist Missionary
Cordoba grows: 14
Rheims finishes: University
Paris grows: 11
Valencia's borders expand

Turn 232 (1610 AD)
Seville begins: Conquistador
User comment: Adding to our ability to defend some cities are going to produce muskets. More for leave behind city defenders.
Rheims begins: Musketman
Barcelona finishes: Conquistador
Hurrian finishes: Conquistador
Toledo finishes: Buddhist Temple
Zhang Heng (Great Engineer) born in Paris
User comment: Artist, Merchant, and Engineer...
Murcia grows: 4
Orleans finishes: Buddhist Temple

Turn 233 (1615 AD)
User comment: 1 turn work boat that can go south to repair the barb pillage damage around western island.
Barcelona begins: Work Boat
Hurrian begins: Musketman
Toledo begins: Musketman
User comment: just keep pushing the culture out on our border.
Orleans begins: Christian Temple
Zaragoza founded

User comment: No culture here yet... so getting a border pop will take a bit... Going with Lighthouse just so we can a bit more... I guess.
Zaragoza begins: Lighthouse
User comment: Tok will declare on Genghis for Guilds and Music
User comment: QSH will do the same for a lot more.
Madrid finishes: Conquistador
Barcelona finishes: Work Boat
Cordoba finishes: Galleon
Hurrian grows: 16
Paris finishes: University
Salamanca finishes: Lighthouse
Lyons finishes: Buddhist Temple
Orleans grows: 6

Turn 234 (1620 AD)
User comment: We need siege to make our forces a bit more effective, so some cities will slip in cats... wish we had cannons!
Madrid begins: Catapult
Paris begins: Catapult
Salamanca begins: Theatre
Lyons begins: Theatre
Barcelona begins: Conquistador
Cordoba begins: Oxford University
User comment: Failed on first attempt to spread bud to QSH....
Buddhism has spread: Pisae (Roman Empire)
User comment: and we finally convert pisae! Too bad I walked right past Neapolis - the bigger JC city without Bud!
Tech learned: Replaceable Parts
User comment: Well, now our mills are more productive. Remember that when improving city tiles.
Madrid grows: 19

Turn 235 (1625 AD)
Research begun: Physics
Galleon defeats (2.32/4): Barbarian Galley
User comment: and thus our fishing nets are safe again...
User comment: Just going with Physics to pick up the Free Scientist
Madrid finishes: Catapult
Barcelona finishes: Conquistador
Rheims finishes: Musketman

Turn 236 (1630 AD)
Madrid begins: Musketman
Barcelona begins: Conquistador
Rheims begins: Theatre
Seville finishes: Conquistador
Cordoba finishes: Oxford University
User comment: Used our Great Engineer to complete Oxford
Hurrian finishes: Musketman
Toledo finishes: Musketman
Paris finishes: Catapult
Salamanca grows: 7
Murcia finishes: Lighthouse
Valencia finishes: Granary
Orleans finishes: Christian Temple

Turn 237 (1635 AD)
User comment: I finally get a missionary to Saladin's city and I find:

User comment: Oh yeah... he aint switching any time soon. Don't know that he'll ever switch civics so we can sneak in a conversion or two.
User comment: Since he only borders on Genghis who won't open borders to us... this missionary is a bored explorer. Should send a caravel to pick him up!
User comment: and I checked, we can't gift the missionary to Sala either dagnabit!
Seville begins: Buddhist Missionary
Cordoba begins: Buddhist Missionary
Hurrian begins: Theatre
Toledo begins: Theatre
Paris begins: Theatre
Valencia begins: Forge
Orleans begins: Harbor
Murcia begins: Granary


Here's the world as it stands:

No revolts so far in any border towns (theirs or ours), but JC is getting a bit settler happy (cept that lonesome archer/settler pair still just sitting on the single cell island!). He's got a city en route to the iron north of Salamanca:

and after roaming our lands for the duration of my turn set has returned a settler and his two axe escorts back to home territory:


More in next post.

 

[bobrath]

I have one caravel in the eastern ocean on a goto. This was done because he has an explorer and there's a hut to the north I wanted to be sure we popped:

Please forgive my violation of protocol, but if we can pop a tech... well I'm being greedy.


Demographics:


Yes, we slipped in GNP. Military spending got in the way of banks, merchants, grocers, and other improvements... Sorry, but I wanted to get us on a nice footing for prosecuting JC. Be sure to check the relations to see if anyone will jump in to help him OR we'll take too big a hit to our relations to QSH.

JC does have a good chunk of archers so be sure to promote some cover in there. He has two great leaders, one is a great artist sw of lyons. I think he's waiting for a 3rd so he can trigger a golden age.

Speaking of Golden Ages. I didn't trigger ours as it would probably have been wasted in building up for a war. As soon as we get out of this war, trigger it. (as well as switching civics of course.) We should be sure to move to Free Market soon. In fact if we know we'll be at war for at least 5 turns... switch now! It will help our economy quite a bit.

Currently researching Physics and its due in 6 turns along with the free Scientist. Our two GLs are awake in Madrid awaiting the next person's commands.

Also our western galleons are unmoved. I've got them positioned to at least warn and possibly intercept any sea based agression. Tok has scouted our contient and he and GH aren't our biggest fans...

We're a good margin above everyone else in Power with SQH in second and JC in third. Its too bad QSH wants so much for attacking Genghis. It would be a nice disturbance over there and we might be able to get others jumping in the fun.

When we do take JC down... his main forces are in the capital right now with quite a few ships. Expect a naval landing - most likely on our east cost where we have limited naval capabilities. Be sure to have some defense on the coasts just in case. BTW, Rome is the prize. Two wonders there that will really be nice to have. I'd suggest heading towards it before Neapolis (Cumae and Antium being the logical first two choices). Ravenna will fall easily. I've loaded up Hurrian to make it a quick hit. That will reduce our front nicely. Oh yeah and Arretium... is barely defended and if doesn't fall on the first turn of war I will be very disappointed!!

Next tech... Rifling would be nice for making our muskets more effective or we could look at moving towards combustion. I've avoided communism as we can already go to police state whenever we want to (thank you pyramid).

If anyone has *any* idea on how we can get zaragoza with a bit of culture... put it out here. We need to pop the borders to get the two sea foods and the horses. It was a reach to settle here, but I just have this paranoia about basing my invasion on a resource someone else is giving me!

The save file:
View attachment 115572

 

[GreyFox]

As is expecetd out of bobrath, an excellent turnset. I concur with most of your analysis, some extra additions:

Spreading Bud-wise (not the beer!!! ) -- Forget Saladin and the rest, let's concentrate on QSH first. He may be able to spread a few for us if he is in good terms with some neighbors.

Again, don't worry about GNP when at or bracing up for war ... just remember to prepare enough units before declaring war, and once win is at hand, we can stop building units and revolt back to original civis and build up our infrastructure while our units are fighting. Must continue building units ... our mounted conquis. can reach the frontline pretty fast (2~3 turns at most). So, I would first build more than enough catapults in the front cities, and conquisador in the further back cities.

Ohhh... my favourite tech is researched: Replaceable Parts. You know what this means, right? Lumbermills .... (always reminds of elves, must be a Warcraft II thing )

Research-wise I would go for the free scientist first, then go for military techs (rifling). Remember QSH is leading us in GNP now, so he will catch up in tech soon if he go trading with his neighbors, and may snatch the scientist.

Agree on not needing Police State, but Communism does not enable Police State (that's Fascism). It enables State Property, which is useful for us if we do take JC, and colonize the north islands.

If anyone has *any* idea on how we can get zaragoza with a bit of culture... put it out here. We need to pop the borders to get the two sea foods and the horses. It was a reach to settle here, but I just have this paranoia about basing my invasion on a resource someone else is giving me!

Two ways: (1) Great Artist ... remeber him? Cultural Bomb. A tad too drastic though. (2) Remember we own pyramids? Revolt to UniSuff, buy whatever infastructure building you need and revolt back. Getting the first culture expansion is easy, a mere 10 cp. A cheap 50-hammer theatre would do it in 4 turns (3cpt).

 

[eektor]

Excellent turns GreyFox and bobrath.

If money is a problem maybe we should use the great merchant to do a trade mission in china. We could wait for another great leader to have our golden age.

Somehow I don't think there is going to be any war during my turn. Good luck Maquis and oldbustedjorn on the upcoming war.

About VQ02 - I only have 512mb of ram so huge might be pushing it for me. I usually stay on standard but I think I can handle a large map. Nice idea Maquis.

About Zaragoza - can't you set the production to culture til it expands? That might be the easiest way unless I'm missing something here.

 

[GreyFox]

About Zaragoza - can't you set the production to culture til it expands? That might be the easiest way unless I'm missing something here.

Geez, how could I miss that ... I was struck in the pre-Drama era, I guess

Somehow I don't think there is going to be any war during my turn. Good luck Maquis and oldbustedjorn on the upcoming war.

If you are not getting any war, I guess I won't even dream of it ... unless... unless ... I declare WAR myself .... hmmm...

 

[Maquis]

Ok, I got it. I'll be playing in a few hours. Looks like I'll be continuing the buildup, and maybe start the war...

Also, I will make it a point to get a culture expansion at Zaragoza. I'll either buy a theatre, or see about eektor's idea of setting the build to culture (not sure if there are enough hammers to get it to produce 1 cpt?)

 

[bobrath]

I think when the mine on the hill east of Zara completes, you'll have hammers... not sure how much culture they'd produce but that's an excellent idea!

I will say that currently our beakers level is pretty awesome. We can knock out multiple techs in each turnset. QSH will have a hard time passing us, we just need to get some "festivities" started over there sooner rather then later. Too much peace can let the genie out of the bottle.

We've been running at a deficit on research (about -30) with a bank of around 300. That's part of the reason I made so many resource for gpt trades. We've got about 30-40gpt coming in right now due to resource trades. Its also why we want to move to free market soon for one of our civics - +1 trade routes will help us keep our research cranking. Of course if we were to turn down research for a few turns - we'd probably have a truck load of gold for upgrading defenders...

 

[Maquis]

I think using the Merchant for a trade mission to QSH is a great idea. That should give us 3k-4k gold, which we can use to upgrade defenders, and keep our research up. I'm planning on sending him, as well as a missionary to QSH.