Very quick noob SG

I just got back from Boston, was out for about a week.

Glad to see you found good replacements, though I still have to read everything.

Don't feel bad or guilty, I don't have the time now to play as I was, so the subs can keep on going I guess.

Just an, erm, update.
 
Its been a busy weekend. I need to catch up on reading the updates. I just got back from a Super Bowl party, so I'll probably be able to catch up on the reading tomorrow.

Oh nitroduckie feel free to jump back in whenever you want.
 
We'll don't rush, I'm not done yet...

Actually the turns are done adn the text written, but pictures aren't uploaded. Why? Because I have one-way-frikin-cable, thats why. I HATE cable companies, and especially ones that don't care about their customers because they don't have competition. Can we 532 a cable company? :hammer::satan:

I promise I'll them up first thing tomorrow morning....
 
IT:

Our special unit, the Conquistador, requires Horseback(1 turn), Guilds(5 turns), and because of no horses, Asto (11 turns). This means that it will be a minimum of 17turns(less tech trades if possible) till we get our UU. I decide that we don't need them for Louis. Not that it wouldn't help, but now is the time to kill Louis methinks. If I wait till UU it will 20 or 30 turns before we have enough to matter. After Printing Press is finished, I will go that route, because our UU is strength + 50% to melee, which spells :hammer: for JC's Praets. We'll get our UU just in time after the frenchies are gone.

Ooh! Notice we can get macemen because Civil Service is 3 TURNS!!! I decide to go that route and change research. My thoughts for tech (can be changed) are, CS, PP, Astro, then trade for horses and riding, then trade or research guilds for health and UU.

I decide to try something...leave OR on until the first unit is ready to pop - then switch civics and see if they are promoted. This will allow Barc to finish the Heroic Epic and pump units like mad.

Seville can wait on the aquaduct, has +5 health headroom as it is, so I start the Xbows - its all about the Xbows!! They are 6 +50% melee which is what louis has most of... Doh! 6 turns for one is rough though.

Toledo gets switch to a cat, Rheims to a Barracks (has good production and low commerce and was building market), I also switch Salamanca to a work boat, because the fish is already in the radius - hopefully this is an ok move. I decide to switch Paris to an Xbow, because the national epic has 15 turns, and we can build it anytime.

Our fastest unit build is 3 turns so I shall wait to do the civic switch.


Just so you know, I'm making all these changes because of the upcoming war, not because I thought they were bad or anything. We're all doing pretty good I think (and I'm hoping I didn't speak to soon!).


Turn 1 (1380AD):

Our galley (not the archer one), by west isle was finished off by the barb galley.

Hurrian: Bud Missionary -> Cat
JC complete Notre Dame, so we'll get the cash from that.

I notice that the french are NOW hooking up iron - I can declare but I won't be able to take it that fast. Not to mention, there are no archers in Paris right now to defend.

I switch to Xbow in Cordoba.

I also start moving units around to position for a fight...

Turn 2 (1390AD):

147 gold from losing Notre Dame, I'll keep science where it is because we won't suffer maintenance as bad when it hits. I also may need to upgrade some units.

Ok, I take a chance here. Here is the scenario - 2 archers in Chartres with 20% bonus def and that settler/archer/axe stack far in the north now. I can grab a worker, stop the iron, and I feel defended enough so I declare WAR :hammer: We'll have reinforcements in force in a turn or two, so I feel confident.



I switch civics here as well and our gpt goes up because of the chaeper civics!!

This should be an easy war...

Turn 3 (1400AD):

Qin Shi Huang wants Poly for 110 Gold, seems pretty good for a backwards tech so I accept.

Civil Service in -> PP started (3 turns)

Barc: Heroic Epic Built! -> Longbow (1 TURN!!!)
Hurrian: Cat -> Mace
Toledo: Cat -> Mace

Here is what Louis throws at me:



I'd rather face them here than in the 40% city!!! Oh, and I've got two elephants and an axe positioned to fix the "incursion"

Murcia founded on West Isle, but JC did get a city on the extreme western point...

BTW, the trick worked! Our units got 8xp, 4 from barracks 4 from civics, even though they weren't changed until one turn before build!!

Attacking Bactres (french iron) with 74% chance w/ elephant:



WIN!

93% with cover-promote sword and...



Win! I decide to raze - hope that was ok. We can put a better city there if we want to.

Meet Saladin on other continent in south, I tell him we're peaceful (if he only knew!)


Turn 4 (1410AD):

(Ok, there should be a screenie here but I must have forgot to actually take the pic! It shows a NEW French Iron City TM on our northeast coast, with all desert tiles except the copper...)

Dang they are persistent. I mean, that city has copper and then all desert except the sea. But thats ok, we'll destroy that too! By the time they build a worker, the rest of their empire will be in peril!

Rheims: Barracks -> Mace

Good news and bad news. The good news is that we are #1 in tech. The bad news is that JC is #2!



Some land I found east of our island (we'll east and west its a globe, but closer east. Looks like some good land. I'm not interested in settling for our own good, but to keep it from the AIs. I will dispatch some units there.

I destroy the stack of three that came from the south. 3 Wins, 0 losses!

Ok this is odd. Notre Dame has been built in Rome (confirmed on top5 cities page) and yet I can keep building it in Cordoba. This has happened to me before, is it a bug? While I'd like to see if it would allow completion, that could potential waste a lot of hammers. I change production to a settler (we'll need it somewhere along the line), and leaev ND in the queue.

Turn 5 (1420AD):

Paris: Forge -> Barracks - I don't intend to use Paris until the JC war, but speaking of Paris.

It really puts out the culture! Turns out we *may* get a JC city without bloodshed. (In hindsight, it won't flip, JC must've put a library in or something)



Madrid: Xbow -> Xbow - but then it will prolly go back to nat epic

The rest continued on next post...
 
Turn 6 (1430AD):

Qin demands Alphabet, I hate to do it, but I'm not good with Diplo, so until we find out who we want to tick off, I'll give him letters... We are now pleased with him (I wonder frickin why?)

Printing Press in -> Astro

Barc: War Eleph -> Longbow
Hurrian: Mace -> Islam Monastary

Ah! A nice surprise at Seville! We found GOLD



What do you say we put a city here if possible?



Turn 7 (1440AD):

Barc: Longbow -> Settler (nothing else interesting to build, and we'll surely need them later)
Toledo: Mace -> Xbow
Rheims: Mace -> Market

Mace kills archer in south
Axe kills archer at French Iron Colony TM in the north, did I say they were persistent?
Ok, I thought it was going to kill the axe and I could raze with sword (only two units there), but its only 30% - although we may lose the sword to the axe (which would leave the city undefended so I don't think they'll do that).



Turn 8 (1450AD):

Bud spreads to Murcia by itself.

DOH!!! Bud fails to spread in last JC city....

Fishing City up north



Turn 9 (1460AD):

Cordoba: Settler -> Sistine Chapel (there's not much else to build!)
Hurrian: Islam Monas -> Islam Temple

Several other military builds finish and go back to original infra/wonder builds. I get a settler and send him north to where I've place a longbow - i think its the best we'll get up there.


Turn 10 (1470AD):

More unit movement. Great scientist pops in Toledo, I'll let the group decide and the next person use. I take out an archer above Lyons... There are units everywhere!!! We won't have to rest long before JC.

Nothing of interest. I leave the stack in the south next to lyons on forest - all unpromoted and cats have already started the bombard. This is probably overkill but maybe we can do without losing a single unit. Something we'll need against JC. I finally got reinforcements up to that French Iron City TM and you'll be able to take that next turn. I left all the fighting because I knew I couldnl't do it all, but the next person can take them out completely. Then we'll need to stabilize, advance in tech and get conquistadors and put the :hammer: on JC!!!


Screenshot Time...











We have 5 turns to astro, then I suggest horseback (1 turn), guilds for our UU, then maybe Liberalism beeline?

The Roster:

player 1: Maquis -----
player 2: oldbustedjorn ----- Just Played
player 3: eektor - UP
player 4: GreyFox ---- On Deck
player 5: bobrath ----


And the save...

View attachment 115205
 
Its too bad our initial city on the west island wasn't settled one more tile west. Would have made both cities better off. Ah well, no big worries. We do need to get a worker over there asap to help both cities improve.

I do admire the AI's desire to keep a military resource hooked up. He knows that without copper or iron, that he has no chance. Smart stuff there. Too bad its just too darn late for him.

I noticed in one of your screen shots that JC switched to vasslage... we need to be careful of him and make sure we 1) keep good relations and 2) keep a strong military presence. It's not a bad thing that he's second in tech. I'd much rather deal with a tech leader in a land war then in a sea war!

Good job on the civic switch btw. Great use of our leader's traits. Lets make sure we switch off of theocracy and vassalage when it makes sense.

I'd suggest putting horsebackriding off. We'll pick it up from one of the other AIs OR we can research after we get horses. Lets keep picking off the top techs, plus Guilds will let us build grocers. Since GSH has Philosophy AND Engineering... he's making that liberalism beeline already!!! So yes get Astronomy to help our expansion but if we want liberalism we need to be efficient.

I'd probably raize the northern copper city. It would only burden our economy and if anything that site can act as a magnet for other AI's settlers.:satan:

Tough choice to found on that strip of land. The ideal spot would be the hill west of the desert, but that moves us away from the two food resources... Guess you found on the desert (bleck and then drop a fort on the hill!)
 
great turns, oldbustedjorn!

DIE, Louis, DIE!

We have to be careful about Qin though. He is second in score, and have 2 relatively advance techs which we don't. We need Philosophy for Liberalism, which Qin already has. So don't delay Liberalism by too much. The free tech slingshot may cost us dearly if it turns out QIn is getting it instead of us.

We don't really need to research to horseback riding ourselves. You could have negotiated when Qin made the demand and exchange horseback riding with him.

I say we skip Guilds for the moment and go for Liberalism straight (do we have Education?). Guilds chould be brought later. we are not that hurried to take JC out, are we?

The Scientist could be used to learn the necessary tech (Educationif we don't have one, or directly to grab liberalism), or build the Academy.
 
We do need to get a worker over there asap to help both cities improve.

I did get one worker over there, and he is chopping jungle as we speak. We could use another one though - there is MUCH jungle there.


We don't really need to research to horseback riding ourselves. You could have negotiated when Qin made the demand and exchange horseback riding with him.

Doesn't that still get you the -1 or -2 from not helping? If not then it was some serious :smoke: on my part. My thinking was that he was already bordlerline with us (-2 I think) and so another -2 (usually -1 but I've seen -2) would put us at risk for war. Of course, that might not be the end of the world either. As far as not trading for it, it seemed everyone was asking too much for a 1-turn tech, especially because it wouldn't do us any good until we have Astro and Guilds for our UU.
 
I think as long as you complete a deal in that same "conversation" that it will count as a positive. Its the refusal of any deal that hurts. (I think)

HBR may end up costing us too much to justify trading for, but its a cheap 1 turn research (esp since everyone else knows it) and I have no problem with us leaving it until we need it. Heck Horses may not exist in this world...
 
I think as long as you complete a deal in that same "conversation" that it will count as a positive. Its the refusal of any deal that hurts. (I think)

I'll try to verify that sometime....

Heck Horses may not exist in this world...

Actually, there are quite a few civs with horses. We have an explorer on the other continent and there are much horses...
 
Cool... now we just have to find someone to dupe into trading with us!

Looking forward to eektor's turnset - removal of the french blight perhaps?
 
Ok, this is my got it post. I think I can definitely play tonight like in about 3 hours or so. So, discuss away.

I haven't looked at the turns that closely, but from what I saw my goal would be the complete removal of Louis from the game.
 
Ok, my goals would be to finish off the french like I said earlier. I think we should keep the 3 cities including Avignon. Although I can be persuaded to raze Avignon.

With the great scientist I think we should use it to build an academy in Madrid(had the highest science beakers). If Madrid gets the academy we should be looking at putting the oxford university here.

After Astronomy, I think we should try to get Liberalism. To get it we would need philosophy, education, and then liberalism. I think we should do education first so we can build universities quickly. Then we could do philosophy and liberalism.

Any comments or suggestions? I'll play in around 2 hours or so.
 
I would keep all the cities except the French Iron City TM up north (I think that may be Avignon). I would personally raze avignon, but you could get a small amount of commerce in the future.

If you go liberalism, I think its a good idea to go education first and try to trade for phil....

Academy in Madrid sounds good to me.

Looking forward to NOT seeing Louis again :hammer:
 
I would contact Qin first, and find out what are the technologies leading to Education he don't have. If none, then we have to hurry up (i.e. veto astro for the moment), he might be researching education right now. Else, the plan of researching Edu first, then trade philosophy if any, is a good idea. Even if no one has or is willing to trade Phil, we can always research it then -- gives us time to build University in major research cities (read: Madrid) to help the researching of Liberalism.

You guys are doing very well!

Eektor, please pass me a peaceful world :cooool:

I am a builder at heart ... :lol
 
Uhoh, maybe I shouldn't have declared war on the Romans and the Mongols. (just kidding)

Sorry, I haven't post up the writeup. The turns are done but I need to make the writeup from my notes. I'll try to get that up within the next hour.
 
Uhoh, maybe I shouldn't have declared war on the Romans and the Mongols. (just kidding)

As eektor leave GreyFox a LOVELY present of a stack of 10 Praets and 4 cats... :cringe:

Oh, and don't feel rushed for the write-up, we are screaming through this game compared to most SG's. In fact, if and when we finish this game - we should keep the same group and start something harder, like on prince. I've been playing prince and getting space wins very late - so I would even be willing to try an SG monarch (lol we'd prolly lose, but it'd be fun).

Back to the game at hand... I agree with GreyFox's analysis, although this is a weak point in my personal games - maybe I'll learn something. I think the longer we wait to attack JC the better, because their UU will get weaker. We just don't want to see cavalry or rifles before he bites the dust if possible.

Since we have some units and will be eventually building our UU soon, I would refrain from building military in all but frontier cities. If you do, I would concentrate on cats and longbows for defense - even though I don't think there is that much left to build in most of our cities. Look for more opportunities to settle.

And I'm assuming eektor finished off the French, right? RIGHT!!?!?! :ar15:
 
Ok here goes:

Goals: Finish Louis :ar15:
Get on the research path for Liberalism

Turn 0: 1470 AD
Looks good, pressed enter.

Turn 1: 1480 AD
Barcelona: Settler -> Maceman
Hurrian: Islamic Temple -> Longbowman (For city defense)
Toledo: Crossbowman -> Longbowman

Captured Avignon :hammer: . I lost a unit too on 75+ % odds. It was auto razed so didn’t have much of a choice there.

View attachment 115331

Turn 2: 1490 AD
Captured Lyons and installed a new governor :hammer: .
Built an Academy in Madrid.

(I thought I took a screenshot of this :( )

Turn 3: 1500 AD
Barcelona: Maceman -> Longbowman
Seville: Aqueduct -> Buddhist Missionary (We need to pick an ally from the other continent and spread our religion to them. I think it might be best one that doesn’t have a holy city.)
Hurrian: Longbowman -> Buddhist Missionary
Santiago: Market -> Harbor

Founded Valencia in the northern part, where the deer is.
Siege of Orleans has begun.

View attachment 115332

Turn 4: 1505 AD
Genghis Kahn canceled Open Borders. (We need to watch out with him.)
Barcelona: Longbowman -> Longbowman
Toledo: Longbowman -> Christian Monastery (I thought the Christian holy city should have at least have the monastery to build missionaries.)
Somebody built the Sistine Chapel.

Turn 5: 1510 AD
Discovered Astronomy and I changed to Education.
Barcelona: Longbowman -> Observatory
Cordoba: Sistine Chapel -> Observatory (Got some money for this)
Hurrian: Buddhist Missionary -> Observatory
Rheims: Market -> Observatory (noticing a pattern here?)

View attachment 115333

Orleans captured this turn and I installed a new governor.
Louis is no more! :beer:
I traded Sheep and Sugar for Cows and Wheat with the Chinese.

Turn 6: 1515 AD
Seville: Buddhist Missionary -> Observatory
Lyons: -> Library (needs culture fast)

Changed civics to OR and Bureacracy

Turn 7: 1520 AD
Toledo: Christian Monastary -> Observatory
Paris: Library -> Observatory
 
Turn 8: 1525 AD

:sleep:

Turn 9: 1530 AD
Madrid: National Epic -> Observatory
Santiago: Harbor -> Library

Turn 10: 1535 AD
The Chinese asked for a trade of Ivory and Horses. I accepted. (Maybe a small detour to Guilds would be nice now to take out the Romans.)
Discovered Education. Changed to Philosopy. (GreyFox feel free to change this, it just started so we don’t lose anything.)
Cordoba: Observatory -> University
Orleans: -> Library

Comments:
We could use some good builder turns now and I’m sure GreyFox will do great.

- I left a settler that I’m not sure where to send it.
- Our gpt is in the negatives but with the war and losing in a wonder race we got a lot more gold than I started the turn set with.
- I suggest going for Liberalism but we can do a small detour to get Guilds for our UU.
- We need to pick our ally in the other continent. I don’t think Saladin is a good idea since he is the weakest one and would be the easiest to take out first. The Chinese are second in power so even though we are the most friendly with them, might not be a good idea. The Mongols don’t like us and I think Japan didn’t either.
- Lyons need some culture quick or we could lose this city. Maybe a detour to get drama so we can build theatres is necessary.

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