Vincentz Infinite Projects [VIP MOD]

[vincentz]

a possibly bugged 0.92

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?hmtcyijidf27kql

 

[Drakarska]

ok, now I'm curious

quick ? ( with some puzzlement as well), why is there no chopping until machinery in the Med era? this is a bit frustration when you have a strat res that is covered by forrest. your basically hosed until you get the tech, and Really butt-hurt if the AI scores the res before you do. Was wonder what your reason was behind this.

 

[vincentz]

yeah, its a problem with the mapscripts that spams forest all over the map.
It is possible to build mines (with some delay) at forests and jungles, and plantations as well as ofcourse the camps.
I wanted to add a "Change Game Rule" in VIP loader for people using those mapscripts to revert to default behaviour.

The reason for doing so was to avoid the "its 1200 AD and there is not a single tile of forest or jungle remaining in the entire world". Now jungles (which can be removed with steam power iirc) is still present and adds atmosphere, diversity and tactical aspects to the game. (as well as being a little bit closer to real life situations)

 

[Noyyau]

Between VIP and AND I'd need an extra day every day just to be able to play everything!

I *will* be supplying comments, but the day job is in the way of playing!

 

[Drakarska]

yeah, its a problem with the mapscripts that spams forest all over the map.
It is possible to build mines (with some delay) at forests and jungles, and plantations as well as ofcourse the camps.
I wanted to add a "Change Game Rule" in VIP loader for people using those mapscripts to revert to default behaviour.

The reason for doing so was to avoid the "its 1200 AD and there is not a single tile of forest or jungle remaining in the entire world". Now jungles (which can be removed with steam power iirc) is still present and adds atmosphere, diversity and tactical aspects to the game. (as well as being a little bit closer to real life situations)

Fair enough. Just means I have to adjust my tech path. No worries, I enjoy the challenge

 

[Drakarska]

Between VIP and AND I'd need an extra day every day just to be able to play everything!

I *will* be supplying comments, but the day job is in the way of playing!

Add RI to that quote as well. It's always refreshing when you can feel the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and then notice the significant other giving you a glare that's guaranteed to decalcify your spinal column. Fortunately, self preservation usually kicks in..... Most of the time

 

[vincentz]

Argh! Come on!! I'm getting utterly squashed and pwned in my own mod....

Spoiler :

 

[Drakarska]

Argh! Come on!! I'm getting utterly squashed and pwned in my own mod....

Spoiler :

Hmnn, I don't know whether to ROFL or be afraid....

 

[Drakarska]

Ok, another question concerning sentry. I have multiple war chariots out at the edge of my CB's as fog busters, and I have them set in sentry mode. Problem is, barbs are just magically appearing IN my CB's, as well as along the edge. I've even had barbs just Gandalf in between 2 WC's, and neither one of the chariots went active with the barb just poofing right there. So, did I miss something in the 'pedia? Is there something specific I need to do, or a special promo I'm missing? Kind of flummoxed by this, and TBH, it's getting a bit irritating. Don't get me wrong, I'm digging the mod, but TPorting barbs is a bit weird.

 

[vincentz]

Special Promotion -> Reconnaissance Promotion.
or
Using Scouts. Scouts are "born" with Recon promo and can also see animals.
or
Great Wall. With limited visibility the G.W. is extremely useful at keeping barbs at bay.


The Recon promotion is automatically given to all units build in a city with Stable (need a better building for it, so suggestions are welcome). Without it the units visibility is on the tile they stand only (though my workers did stop whatever they were doing if a barb came close)

But it gave me a good idea for the Bowyer/Fletcher which needed a boost. It now gives Recon Promo.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

So what did you end up deciding on the citysets, just curious.

 

[vincentz]

nothing as of yet. I opened up the CIV4CityLSystem.xml, and recalled what a nightmare it is to work with, so I prosponed it to a time, where I can focus 100% on it (which is when both my wife and kid is out of the house, and I'm not too tired or have other chores

edit : If you know winmerge, you can see its not just a simple merge, and since I already added and changed quite a lot of stuff in cityLsystem, it only gets more confusing.

Spoiler :

 

[j_mie6]

that's why asaf made the ethnicbuildings mod. to avoid this. unfortunately it is for city buildings not the city art they really should have made it easier in the first place

 

[vincentz]

Yes!

 

[JosEPh_II]

I imagine it's too difficult, with the visibility system you've made, to allow Any unit on a barren/treeless hill to see the surrounding tiles. I understand the scout promo but the treeless hill and not being able to see the surrounding tiles is hard to take.

1st 6000 years are basically 1 city and a lot of click turn click turn. Even having 3-4 cities by 100BC is pushing it. Is this so that the Tech progression sort of lines up for the later Eras?

Do you have plans to break up the Religion founding techs so 1 player doesn't grab most religions? And No I'm not advocating Limited Religions Option nor a Divine Prophet Option either. It's just an inherent BtS tech chain that allows 3 to 4 of the 7 Religions to be teched by the tech leader. Just the simple removal/break up of the Polytheism->Monotheism->Monasteries chain by adjusting the Prereqs helps tremendously in this regard. Tech costs by Era is maybe something to think about. Currently the Tech costs are all over the place.

JosEPh

 

[vincentz]

1) I imagine it's too difficult, with the visibility system you've made, to allow Any unit on a barren/treeless hill to see the surrounding tiles. I understand the scout promo but the treeless hill and not being able to see the surrounding tiles is hard to take.

2) 1st 6000 years are basically 1 city and a lot of click turn click turn. Even having 3-4 cities by 100BC is pushing it. Is this so that the Tech progression sort of lines up for the later Eras?

3) Do you have plans to break up the Religion founding techs so 1 player doesn't grab most religions? And No I'm not advocating Limited Religions Option nor a Divine Prophet Option either. It's just an inherent BtS tech chain that allows 3 to 4 of the 7 Religions to be teched by the tech leader. Just the simple removal/break up of the Polytheism->Monotheism->Monasteries chain by adjusting the Prereqs helps tremendously in this regard.

4) Tech costs by Era is maybe something to think about. Currently the Tech costs are all over the place.

JosEPh

1) I actually had it at one time. You could see hills from 1 tile away, and on top of barren hill, would be able to see 1 tile surrounding. Might reimplement it, though iirc there was a downside with it. cant remember which though.

2) (and 4) The techtree is from RoM, and I have done very little to it. Added a couple and adjusted later era techcost. I do have problems getting to the different eras in time. sometimes. other times the AI (and/or myself) is actually ahead of time. But the Neolithic/Ancient/Classical eras are usually "late", and not in my preferred order.

So I took them up to revision :

Spoiler :

But I completely agree that there is very little to do in early eras. I found myself selecting the Normal (x2 Unit and Building cost) speed, so atleast the city wouldnt stand on barter half the time. I can imagine the problem would be doubled on Epic. I thought about some early buildings (Healers Hut seems to be one of the most popular amongst mods , but also a good building to provide the Recon promotion, and a Weavers Hut or something, and I looked at the BFC-resource building requirement modcomp, which could be used for some specific buildings.

Also the scout comes too late (Hunting, Stone tools AND Naturopathy is a bit too much).

However, playing on Normal speed, Colossal size and Emperor difficulty I actually got declared war upon at 100 BC by the japs who attacked with 2 Horsemen, 2 Rams, 2 Chariots and 1 Archer, (see screenie a couple of posts up) so the AI is actually doing pretty well (almost all their capitals were around size 12)

3) Limited Religions is actually on per default, so any civ shouldnt be able to found more than 1 religion. It can be turned off in VIPLoader though.

4) Could you be more precise?

 

[Jwitti]

the problem with your previous limited visibility iirc was that rams could kill all the units in a city if you couldn't see it. Although not letting them attack seems more realistic imho..

I just noticed how odd it seems to use two four-letter acronyms...

If it's of any help I find myself finishing all the available buildings quickly in the ancient-classical eras.

On a completely different note-
I've noticed that it's two easy to get horses AND camels, and the desert bonus doesn't seem enough to outweigh using horses.. deserts just aren't expansive enough, or big enough obstacles, or something, to show the historical preference of camels in deserts.
I don't know how hard it would be in the code to both implement terrain damage and make camels resistant to it.. or somehow set it up so that having camels is actually more of an asset. The only one I've found is that it's easy for them to get 2X movement in desert for barbbusting and the war camel doesn't need armor-crafting

Also I think it would be good to keep elephants relevant at least as long as camels, or even horses (thinking mughal siege elephants or like)

Maybe you could implement something like C2C's elephant, mule, llama workers as well.. maybe camels, Elephants, and horses, and adding llamas as a resource may be fun.


Of course, I know how hard modding is, and I just do XML, so feel free to use or ignore my ideas as you wish.

 

[vincentz]

1)the problem with your previous limited visibility iirc was that rams could kill all the units in a city if you couldn't see it. Although not letting them attack seems more realistic imho..

I just noticed how odd it seems to use two four-letter acronyms...

If it's of any help I find myself finishing all the available buildings quickly in the ancient-classical eras.

On a completely different note-
2) I've noticed that it's two easy to get horses AND camels, and the desert bonus doesn't seem enough to outweigh using horses.. deserts just aren't expansive enough, or big enough obstacles, or something, to show the historical preference of camels in deserts.
I don't know how hard it would be in the code to both implement terrain damage and make camels resistant to it.. or somehow set it up so that having camels is actually more of an asset. The only one I've found is that it's easy for them to get 2X movement in desert for barbbusting and the war camel doesn't need armor-crafting

Also I think it would be good to keep elephants relevant at least as long as camels, or even horses (thinking mughal siege elephants or like)

3) Maybe you could implement something like C2C's elephant, mule, llama workers as well.. maybe camels, Elephants, and horses, and adding llamas as a resource may be fun.


4) Of course, I know how hard modding is, and I just do XML, so feel free to use or ignore my ideas as you wish.

1) I think the Ram (and other 0 viz units) have been fixed. (?)
2) I wanted Camels to have a bonus against Horses. When I added the camels, I read about how camels scared horses, so that might be an incitament for building camels. Donno why I never came around to actually adding the bonus. However, since horses are generally stronger, there is still an incitament for building those.
3) Elephant workers.... Might be the new UU for Siam when I get to adding new civs. Though iirc there was a problem adding strenght to worker units. Cant remember the details though.
4) I have come to a point where I really need feedback for my mod, so I'm very happy with any sorts of input

 

[isenchine]

3) Elephant workers.... Might be the new UU for Siam when I get to adding new civs. Though iirc there was a problem adding strenght to worker units. Cant remember the details though.

I remember adding strength to workers in my mod but somehow it changed their status and they did not react anymore to danger from enemy units.

 

[JosEPh_II]

<CivicOptionType>CIVICOPTION_GOVERNMENT</CivicOptionType>
			<Type>CIVIC_CHIEFDOM</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_DESPOTISM</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_DESPOTISM_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
			<Strategy>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_DESPOTISM_STRATEGY</Strategy>

<CivicOptionType>CIVICOPTION_GOVERNMENT</CivicOptionType>
			<Type>CIVIC_DESPOTISM</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_CHIEFDOM</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_CHIEFDOM_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
			<Strategy>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_CHIEFDOM_STRATEGY</Strategy>

Is this intended or a copy mistake?
Shouldn't Despotism use the Despotism TXT_KEY_CIVIC_DESPOTISM?
And Chiefdom use Chiefdom TXT_KEY_CIVIC_CHIEFDOM?

JosEPh