Vox Populi Congress Proposal Workshop

[phantomaxl1207]

Oh good, let's make Franchises more useful. This should make it a bit more of a choice.
One thing I would like to see is that the +1 to the Monopoly Resources be changed to a more meaningful value, even just 2 would be nice.

 

[usadefcon1]

We can change the cooldown of work boats to 1 turn, if needed. I seem to remember it working that way...

How about no cool down for workboats?

 

[stii]

It is a bit wild you can only buy one work boat per five turns but you can buy six tanks with faith/gold if you want to.

 

[azum4roll]

It is a bit wild you can only buy one work boat per five turns but you can buy six tanks with faith/gold if you want to.

Gold has cooldown. Faith uses a belief slot.

 

[Anarcomu]

The only situation you can buy 7 units (counting the city itself) with is when buying mercenaries and equivalent. But you need to finish Authority for that.

 

[Diomedes_]

Why bother giving the workboat another unique mechanic when you could just remove it all together? Every solution to sea resources that doesn't involve just using workers requires making workboats more complicated, not less. Therefore, I see no good reason to keep them around.

 

[pineappledan]

There are various technical issues with just making workers do sea improvements. Not least of which is they have no art or AI to support them improving fish.

 

[Stalker0]

There are various technical issues with just making workers do sea improvements. Not least of which is they have no art or AI to support them improving fish.

could the workers turn into boats when they are embarked? (no idea is art switching is possible in the game)

 

[Diomedes_]

You can just have them be embarked like they already are while building Polders and Kaupang

 

[pineappledan]

could the workers turn into boats when they are embarked? (no idea is art switching is possible in the game)

If they turn into work boats when they embark then they can only disembark onto very specific tiles like canals and cities.

 

[Enginseer]

Oh good, let's make Franchises more useful. This should make it a bit more of a choice.
One thing I would like to see is that the +1 to the Monopoly Resources be changed to a more meaningful value, even just 2 would be nice.

Made another 2nd draft of the original post

Notable Change:

• Suggested Cost for a Corporation HQ goes from 2500 to 3000 .
• Corporation Office suggested cost goes from 500 + 20% to 400 + 25%
• Franchises no longer benefit as if it was part of the HQ, instead doubled the monopoly resource bonus to +2.
• Giorgio Armeier no longer reduces boredom+illiteracy by 1, reduces Urbanization by 2 instead per its "specialist" focus.
• TwoKay Food no longer reduces Distress and Poverty in all Cities per office, instead reduces all needs in that city the office is built by 1.

 

[Diomedes_]

I think the corps deserve a few more changes:

• For TwoKay, I would either change the +10% Food per Franchise to +10% Growth or increase the Empire Size Modifier reduction to 8% or even 10%.
• For Sid's, I would have it gain Jeweler's current TR bonus, though increase it to 15%, and increase the extra base TR gold to +4 (from +2).
• For Jeweler's, I would actually increase the base office benefit to +25% but decrease the franchise scaler to +5%. I would then change the franchise TR bonus from +10% gold to +15% GAP and replace the +3% GA length modifier to a flat +1 or +2 Happiness. HQ GAP bonus would be increased to +10 (from +4).
• For Hexxon, I would honestly totally overhaul the Corp. Remove all the free strategic resources and instead refocus on the military and production bonuses. HQ gives flat +20% production and -20% cost towards all military units, along with building prod (which now also includes Recycling Plants). Office gives -3% gold maintenance and upgrade cost for all units as well as +1XP and +1% production/-1% cost towards military units per franchise.
• For Firaxite, change the HQ bonus from unpillagable trade units to "Trade Units give no gold reward when pillaged and cost -50% Gold/Production" and buff the franchise TR bonus to +100% science. Change the office bonus from "+20% production towards buildings" to "engineers/manufactories and scientists/academies yield +2/4 production and science, respectively"
• For Centaurus, change "+1 production from Sea Tiles" to "+1 production from Fishing Boats and +1 science/production from strategic resources." +2 production from Harbors and Seaports on the HQ is changed to "tile improvements are built in 1 turn, worker and fishing boat purchase cooldown eliminated and cost -50%"
• For Armeier, honestly it seems fine as is, though maybe change the TR bonus from +10% culture in the city to "TRs to a city with a franchise produce 100% more culture"

I believe these changes would balance the corps quite a bit but also make them more distinct from one another. Currently there is a decent amount of overlap. I'm also in the camp of wanting corps to be quite strong. For me, the argument of not wanting them to be overly snowballing doesn't hold up, as if you can't get a corporation there is almost no way you could win the game if your did or every other player couldn't. There should be significant power differences between civs by the Modern/Atomic era, though they should be begotten fairly. Currently corps are pretty unbalanced so they fail in that regard.

 

[azum4roll]

For TwoKay, I would either change the +10% Food per Franchise to +10% Growth or increase the Empire Size Modifier reduction to 8% or even 10%.

TwoKay Office is just +10% Food in the city, not per franchise. The modifier reduction is already global so it counteracts your empire size as long as you have an office in every city. More reduction just makes it negative.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

"For Hexxon, I would honestly totally overhaul the Corp. Remove all the free strategic resources"
The extra resources do make it easier to have the strategic monopolies of +1 movement for Ships (Coal) and +2 xp from combat (oil). Hexxon is not good enough if you ask me.

 

[Diomedes_]

TwoKay Office is just +10% Food in the city, not per franchise. The modifier reduction is already global so it counteracts your empire size as long as you have an office in every city. More reduction just makes it negative.

My mistake, you're totally right I meant office, not per franchise, and increased empire size reduction modifier would turn it negative. A negative empire size modifier, if possible, could be kind of interesting though, especially for a food-focused corporation, but it would probably be kind of broken. Maybe just increase the flat food per franchise scaler from +3 to +5/6 instead?

"For Hexxon, I would honestly totally overhaul the Corp. Remove all the free strategic resources"
The extra resources do make it easier to have the strategic monopolies of +1 movement for Ships (Coal) and +2 xp from combat (oil). Hexxon is not good enough if you ask me.

Yeah that's the issue with Hexxon in my experience. In a few niche situations it is stupidly strong (i.e. situations where you have very few strategics or can secure monopolies with the extra copies), but otherwise it is really underwhelming. My goal was to try to stabilize its strength by increasing its bonuses to unit production while taking away the free strategics. Game elements that just allow players to ignore fundamental game mechanics are usually pretty bad/boring in my mind.

 

[azum4roll]

Bonuses to unit production aren't very useful that late in the game since upgrading existing units is much cheaper compared to their production cost. Unless we raise late game upgrade costs or revise the formula, this won't be good enough.

 

[Diomedes_]

Bonuses to unit production aren't very useful that late in the game since upgrading existing units is much cheaper compared to their production cost. Unless we raise late game upgrade costs or revise the formula, this won't be good enough.

Hexxon would give -3% upgrade cost per office, a number which could be increased. But in a domination game (i.e. 15+ cities), this could easily amount to a 50% discount.

 

[Tekamthi]

could the workers turn into boats when they are embarked? (no idea is art switching is possible in the game)

from UnitPromotions table:

<Column name="ConvertDomainUnit" type="TEXT" default="NULL"/>
<Column name="ConvertDomain" type="TEXT" default="NULL"/>

Don't know what these do, have yet to implement in any mod, but I infer the option to convert between units as they enter water or land is already built-in to database. May be other parameters necessary in conjunction with these (or they may be deprecated leftovers from civ 4 etc... only one way to find out without mucking through the dll: modmod experiment)

 

[Tekamthi]

I thought it would be good to have a dedicated thread to brainstorm/develop ideas for future Vox Populi Congress proposals

The congress has been rather popular, as has this thread. Problem is there are multiple disparate ideas all packed in here, it's hard to sort through them...

Could we get a 'Congress proposal workshop' subforum?

 

[Enginseer]

Rough Draft of Tradition Proposal partially inspired by @CAYM's Tradition Tweaks.

	Current	Proposed	Rationale
Tradition Opener	+2 Food, Citizen, and Happiness in the Capital. +1 Culture in the Capital for every 2 Citizens. +5% Growth in all Cities.	+2 Food, Citizen, and Happiness in the Capital. +1 Citizen and -1 Urbanization Unhappiness in the Capital. +1 Culture and Science in the Capital for every 2 Citizens. +5% Growth in all Cities. Earn 50 Culture when you expend a Great Person, scaling with Era.	Overall, you lose the early 2 Food, 2 free Citizens, and Happiness in the Capital in exchange for a total of 6 Free Citizens and 6 Urbanization Unhappiness (effectively happiness because you'll be working specialists right?) We add this Culture bonus for expending Great People since you can theoretically expend 2-3 Great People before you even get close to Splendor, what a missing out of yields!
Scaler	+1 Science in the Capital. +3% Growth in all Cities.	+1 Citizen and -1 Urbanization Unhappiness in the Capital. +1 Science in the Capital. +4% Growth in all Cities.	We mitigated the Science bonus to the opener, but now every policy choice gives you a specialist that you can work without an unhappiness issue!
Justice	+1 Production in every City. Cities with a garrison gain +25% Ranged Combat Strength. Royal Guardhouse (+3 Production, Engineer Slot, +2 Defense, +50 HP).	+1 Production in every City. Cities with a garrison gain +25% Ranged Combat Strength. Royal Guardhouse (+3 Production, Engineer Slot, +3 Defense, +50 HP, +15% RCS).	It can be rather difficult to use the garrison bonus given how early it is in the game. Instead, we let the Royal Guardhouse make the Capital hit harder! Taking a Tradition Capital should be harder to do. We'll be moving the garrison bonus lower in the tree.
Splendor	Earn 50 Culture when you expend a Great Person, scaling with Era. State Treasury (+4 Gold, Merchant Slot, +2 Culture to Monuments, Gardens, and Baths)	Earn 50 Culture when you expend a Great Person, scaling with Era. Cities with a garrison gain +25% Ranged Combat Strength. State Treasury (+4 Gold, Merchant Slot, +2 Culture to Monuments, Gardens, and Baths)	Inherit a part of Justice's bonus at a stage where it can be more used and that'll stack with Justice so the Capital can definitely be a heavy-hitter now.
Majesty	Specialists in the Capital consume half Food. Palace Gardens (+5 Food, Writer Slot, +25% Great People Generation, -2 Urbanization Unhappiness)	Specialists in the Capital consume half Food. Palace Gardens (+5 Food, Writer Slot, +25% Great People Generation, -2 Urbanization Unhappiness)	Since Tradition will be getting an overall -6 Urbanization Unhappiness when finishing it, the Palace Gardens will no longer need to provide this.