Vox Populi Wonders Expanded

[Y.O.]

Currently have 21 policies in the Renaissance (playing on epic). As far as I know, no other Civ have built it, and I have a city directly next to a lake. No message, I just don't see it in the city view. I see it in the technology window however.

 

[Infixo]

Currently have 21 policies in the Renaissance (playing on epic). As far as I know, no other Civ have built it, and I have a city directly next to a lake. No message, I just don't see it in the city view. I see it in the technology window however.

Weird then. What about Gripsholm? It is also lake-based.
If you don’t use too many mods, i might try to load a save file and check it.

 

[Infixo]

@Y.O. And make sure it’s a lake, not a small sea?

 

[Y.O.]

It's definitely a lake, but I think I know what the issue is. Potential mod conflict, didn't realize until I checked the tile again. The Maritime mod include "friendly waters," which may be causing an issue.

 

[glider1]

@glider1 This is not a matter of number of wonders, but tech scanning function which is badly written. Look in the thread about Improved City View, there is a fixed version.

Thanks for this mod Infixo. I see a real need for the VP version of wonder planner with all these wonders but couldn't find the fixed version in the improved city view thread. Any help appreciated.

 

[Infixo]

@glider1 here https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...x-populi-with-eui.627067/page-3#post-15008477

 

[glider1]

Thank you Infixo! Even installed mid-game. It reveals the identity of undiscovered civs at the moment but no big deal.

 

[ryanmusante]

Thank you Infixo! Even installed mid-game. It reveals the identity of undiscovered civs at the moment but no big deal.

Does it do this for you with a new game load?

 

[Mad Madigan]

A small request/suggestion on the part of Inca players. Many of the wonders in this mod now require specific terrain on or near a city in order for it to be eligible for construction. I think this is a fun feature of the mod, but I feel it puts the Inca at an unfair disadvantage if they take advantage of their unique ability of settling on mountains. There are very few wonders in this mod that are eligible for construction if a city is built on a mountain, and since I tend to built most of my wonders in my capital in my most recent game as the Inca I settled Cusco on a mountain. I then later realized that most of the Ancient/Classic wonders are invalid for cities built this way. I wanted Mausoleum and Roman Forums because I had a lot of quarried resources around my capital and because I wanted to go for a diplomatic victory, but I found I could not build them. My suggestion would be to count mountain cities as eligible for wonders in the same category as cities built on hills, so that Incan players aren't forced to not take advantage of their UA in order to have access to more than just a few wonders.

 

[Infixo]

@Mad Madigan Good point, however I don’t see any easy way for a fix or even a workaround. All conditions are based on Buildings table and game’s features and there’s simply no support for cities settled on mountains, as this is VP unique. Can’t even use custom lua conditions as they do not overwrite base ones, only add new ones.
But look at this from other perspective: you probably won’t have all the cities on mountains, and this mod kind of forces you to spread the wonders into various cities.

 

[Mad Madigan]

I recognize that Inca is an edge case, so if there's no easy solution then it's no worry. I've definitely noticed this mod getting me to make wonders in cities other than my capital, and that's a really good thing. I was just a little disappointed because there are not that many good wonders for diplomatic victories (although you definitely helped with this), and in VP they are best used stacked all into one city so that you can get all of your +GD point bonuses in one location. That not being the capital throws off my usual wonder building strategies, but that's fine. It gives me a reason to go for other Founder Beliefs than Council of Elders, that's for certain!

 

[ridjack]

So I've been using this for awhile, now (since you first released it, I'm pretty sure) and I've been loving it. It feels like a very good way to handle wonders. From my completely subjective PoV:

• The terrain requirements do a fantastic job of preventing excessive wonder-whoring (from players and AI both) even though the mod adds a ton of them.
• The AI seems to do a reasonably good job of prioritizing them appropriately.
• There's a ton of variety that's just plain fun. My wife refuses to play anything but Progress anymore because she HAS TO HAVE the Itsukushima Shrine.
• I love things like Mont St. Michel enabling previously 'eeeeeh' cities to shine.

All that being said, I have started to feel a little more iffy about some of the earliest wonders, Stonehenge in particular. Stonehenge is placed and prioritized such that unless you're America or maybe Egypt, you can't even think about getting it if you settle your capital on a hill (which I know I do 90% of the time and I'm pretty confident is the most common 'deciding factor' for the capital). I'm really not even sure this is a bad thing necessarily; Stonehenge is important enough that deciding your settling spot based on it is not unreasonable and makes for a good 'hard choice.' But... Stonehenge is important enough that I also wonder how much that throws off the balance of things.

EDIT: Also bugs me that both Pyramids and Stonehenge, which are both very good/important wonders that are available very close together and on the same tech path, require 'flat' terrain. Feels like it goes a bit against the 'anti-whoring' point I mentioned earlier.

Like I said, I'm not firmly enough one way or the other. Just some food for thought for people smarter than myself.

 

[adan_eslavo]

• Maybe pyramids should have Desert in addition to flat terrain, Stonehange - plains or grasslands and Petra hills (in addition to desert to diversify it from pyramids).
  
• Also some wonder on top tech (Hunting) would be good thing. If you look there then on that line first wonder is Great Lighthouse? Or Petra if you look down. Players at the sea or: setting their city on hills without plains would have some trouble, because what they want to research are top techs of the tree. Maybe some hill/tundra one? Or Forest? Just to fill the path and to add 4th wonder at the beggining.
  
• I also really like that variety, but even more the restricitons. Now has ended what was struggling me since the begginning of my journey thorugh civ 5: one city full of wonders. Or everyone going for Stonehenge.
  
• I noticed that in later eras wonders have less restrictions. Can you add some to them? I would imagine game where almost all wonders have some restrictions.
• One maybe silly question? Maybe to add some more difficulty you could think about adding some Natural Wonder requirement to few World Wonders? So you have to have some NW to build your WW. You should be careful then because sometimes NW are not present on the map so WW would be excluded of the game. But it would add some randomness, strategy in looking for crucial NW and tactics with settling cities.
• Did you plan to add something from Neolithic Wonders mod (Barnenez, New Grange, Ggantija or Skara Brae)? But more balanced than that other mod?

 

[ridjack]

• Maybe pyramids should have Desert in addition to flat terrain, Stonehange - plains or grasslands and Petra hills (in addition to desert to diversify it from pyramids).
  
• Also some wonder on top tech (Hunting) would be good thing. If you look there then on that line first wonder is Great Lighthouse? Or Petra if you look down. Players at the sea or: setting their city on hills without plains would have some trouble, because what they want to research are top techs of the tree. Maybe some hill/tundra one? Or Forest? Just to fill the path and to add 4th wonder at the beggining.
  
• I also really like that variety, but even more the restricitons. Now has ended what was struggling me since the begginning of my journey thorugh civ 5: one city full of wonders. Or everyone going for Stonehenge.
  
• I noticed that in later eras wonders have less restrictions. Can you add some to them? I would imagine game where almost all wonders have some restrictions.
• One maybe silly question? Maybe to add some more difficulty you could think about adding some Natural Wonder requirement to few World Wonders? So you have to have some NW to build your WW. You should be careful then because sometimes NW are not present on the map so WW would be excluded of the game. But it would add some randomness, strategy in looking for crucial NW and tactics with settling cities.
• Did you plan to add something from Neolithic Wonders mod (Barnenez, New Grange, Ggantija or Skara Brae)? But more balanced than that other mod?

I feel like this is all going a little too far. I think the amount of restriction there now is pretty much perfect; some being added to later ones might not be terrible, though.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Diversification of Pyramids from Stonehenge would add some flavor and uniqueness to that wonder. Now I feel like after Stonegenge you MUST go for pyramids because you have it on your technological line and has same requirements. Those were only suggestions. If @Infixo will say "no" to that I will not complain. I just feel that some aspect still can be improved.

@Infixo Maybe it is again just me, but I cannot find one wonder Shwedagon Paya after researching technology:
https://zapodaj.net/7b41143486825.jpg.html
https://zapodaj.net/9aa3f5de00084.jpg.html
Logs will not be able to help you coz I have some errors from other mods I'm currently testing. Could you check that?

 

[Infixo]

@adan_eslavo Re: shwedagon I cannot open those links from zapodaj.net. What do you mean that you cannot find a wonder? Do you mean build? It requires a specific resource improved nearby.

 

[Infixo]

Re: wonder conditions
I designed the mod as a whole, meaning all wonders are balanced in terms of conditions to build them. Each has one terrain condition plus most have a unique condition (policy, ideology, resources, etc). I also tried to set conditions somehow relevant to the actual real wonder.
I think that this is enough to cause variety and forcing players to spread wonders among cities. Adding more conditions will only make them more difficult to build, which was not my goal. Don’t forget that wonders are not restricted in VP. I want a player that has 6-8 cities founded in various places to be able to fulfill geographic conditions easily, only in different cities.
So, in summary, I am not going to add more conditions (restrictions).

 

[adan_eslavo]

I cannot build it because it is not on my build list in the city. Maybe now you can see. I hve Gold which one of the for required resuorces (one of them is needed). Today I will try to clean mess caused by some mods and also check that wonder again. Probably mod conflict but I'm not sure what could cause such problem.

And what about adding that one more wonder on top of tech tree (hunting)? There is some kind of hole when you start researching that line. But because of wonders I'm forced to start from Wheel, Pottery or Mining.


EDIT: I tested few things. I disabled all mods except VP (standard edition), IGE and Wonders. I started game, placed gold source, placed mine and researched Currency and nothing shown up. Of course Angor Wat was there because I had a forest. Then I researched one tech above and there was some other wonder (Malwiya Minaret?) from your pack which required stone works. I placed Stone Works in the city and that other wonders was visible (of course I had not enough policies to build it). I checked logs and here they are.

Earlier I just started disabling mod after mod. Then in some moment I could see that wonder in few iterations (2 or 3). Then I lost it and cannot see so far.

 

[Infixo]

@adan_eslavo Could be a VP bug. There was a github issue related to visibility of resources, but I didn’t analyze it so I can’t say if it’s related.
But if a resource is missing then the building appears in the prod list, only listed with comment why you cannot build it.
Weird. I will look into it.

Edit. Make sure nobody else has built it.

 

[adan_eslavo]

• In test conditions it was turn 1 so nobody built it.
• Maybe this will help you - one more thing I remember: I once saw this wonder but used Silver I had generated on map frm start. But still Gold requirement was shown on red on the top of its tooltip.

One more thing that would be helpful and I know you are working some wih EUI and VP: many of wonders in your mod, but also in base VP has some FREE BUIDINGS like Stonegenge hase Council etc. Could you add some info in tooltip reversed to normal f.e. in Council that it is granted for free by Stonehenge, ... (rest of buildings that grant it for free on construction)?