1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Vox Populi Wonders Expanded

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by Infixo, Dec 7, 2017.

?

Would you like to play with more Wonders in Vox Populi?

  1. Yes, but make all Wonders more unique and not easily obtainable

    73 vote(s)
    69.5%
  2. Yes, catch them all, the more the better

    22 vote(s)
    21.0%
  3. No, Vox Populi has enough Wonders already

    10 vote(s)
    9.5%
  1. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,815
    Location:
    Lebanon
    .

    Sure but you never answered what made this relevant for Progress in itself. Progress is all about infrastructure and development, while Itsukushima itself is sparsely settled. It is rural and mountainous, with no cities. It's only small towns with simple houses and privately owned shops.

    What makes it special is that whoever lives there works to preserve forests and protect nature.

    Where does the 15% reduction in worker build time come into play? Wouldn't a buff to forests or something make more sense?

    I only ask because you are taking flavor into consideration based on your previous posts here (such as the reason for food/faith on Nazca).
     
  2. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,590
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warsaw
    Well, not to sound too simplistic, but I associate Japan with productivity and efficiency.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
    Ziad and ThirstQuencher like this.
  3. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,815
    Location:
    Lebanon
    Haha fair enough. The Japanese are nothing if not diligent.
     
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    5,055
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    I'm petitioning to get the following changes made to the medieval religious wonders:
    Borobudur gives free Stupa instead of monastery
    Hagia Sophia gives free Church instead of Temple
    Angkor Wat gives free Mandir

    Combined with the other wonders (Notre Dame - Cathedral, U of Sankore - Mosque), we are only missing Synagogue, Pagoda and Order as 1-time religious tenant buildings given by medieval wonders.

    Suggestions
    Swap Krak des Chevaliers free Castle for a free Order. It was a crusader castle, so it fits very well, and there are already 2 other wonders in-game that give free castles
    Give Kinkaku-ji a free Pagoda and move it forward to Guilds OR Give Shwedagon free Pagoda and reduce its number of slots to 2 (4 is excessive, and that's the Louvre's thing. Also it's way too early for that)

    New wonder: Solomon's Temple
    Available at Philosophy
    +4:c5faith: +4:c5culture:
    Must be built in Holy City
    Free Synagogue
    +1 faith to cities with city connection
    Doubles religious pressure from city
     
    Drakul, Infixo and Ziad like this.
  5. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,590
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warsaw
    @pineappledan
    Great suggestions. Yes, I was aiming to use other unique religious buildings so there would be a WW that would give one.
    Krak - good, good, I also didn't like very much Castle, but ran out of ideas about it :lol:
    Kinkaku-ji - Pagoda is ok, Guilds - problematic, a) already filled with 5 items and tech tree will not show 6th b) Medieval has 14 wonders, Renaissance 13; I put Kinkaku-ji to Chemistry to boost that Tech a big (it's kind of empty)
    Shwedagon - it keeps some super sacred Buddhism items - 4 (!) of them; it's a set that's why there are 4 slots, i wanna keep it; I suppose I'll nerf theming bonus 'cos it is strong once you fill them; plus without AG they won't fill much quicker than normal
    Solomon's Temple - I like functionality, icon is nice, Philosophy has 2 wonders, so other place? Currency / Metal Castng has a slot, so this one OR Shwedagon could go there; if Solomon's is Holy City, then it should stay in Philosophy, close to Theology; then Shwedagon could go to Currency.
     
  6. hokath

    hokath King

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    946
    Location:
    London
    Further to pineappledan:
    We have the synagogue on Chartres Cathedral atm (for... reasons?) and the order on the Al-Masjid an-Nabawi.
    Otherwise I agree with the first 4 lines and giving the pagoda to the kinkaku-ji.
    Shwedagon's 4 slots are indeed a bit too many, it does give a big boost to artists though (I think its pretty strong), so maybe 3 slots and drop to +3/+3/+3.

    The grand review:
    I've played a few games now so I thought I'd share my notes.

    The first thing I would say is that this mod fits in really nicely with VP. The prerequisites, together with the VP natural increase in wonder costs, means that I didn't feel the "bloat" that you would experience before by flooding the tech tree with new buildings. In all my games the top competitors all had a nice share of the wonders.

    A second general point is that some wonders have long description text that resulted in their descriptions spilling over the box that pops up when they are constructed, which looks naff. I haven't got a comprehensive list but certainly those with two
    [NEWLINE][NEWLINE] breaks will have done this.

    Monte Carlo Casino -- I found this one to be really rather powerful. All three effects push the tourism victory and not in some specific way, either. c.f. the Louvre I think I would concentrate on the non tourism aspects like the trade route (small boost due to caravansary/harbor, it's true), the jewelry and the GPP boost. Cut the hotels. Or you could do the opposite, but I feel this one needs a nerf.

    Trafalgar Square -- feels rather peculiar both in where it is on the tech tree relative to unlocking the ideology, and also how it gives a minefield without requiring the coast. Maybe put it back to Combustion where the minefield is unlocked, and change river to coastal req. Further, the influence boost feels fairly weak to me. Perhaps you could consider using some of that Building_YieldPerFriend and Building_YieldPerAlly to make this wonder more interesting and competitive.

    Sputnik Program -- This one is scary-good, but then they have to be if they are unlocked at rocketry. I think its good to have competition for CERN and the Space Station, so that's no bad thing. I would remove the city-state boost, since it doesn't go with this as the science victory wonder.

    Millau Viaduct -- This one was amazing :D I loved playing with it. It does however make The Motherland Calls look quite bad. Perhaps you could give it Building_YieldFromSpyAttack with production? Maintain the theme but tie into unit production a bit. Just an idea.

    Al-Masjid an-Nabawi -- Maybe give this one two slots and a theming bonus for filling them? It felt quite dry. 10% faith in all cities is often not a lot, perhaps have a larger bonus in the holy city instead. You could also move the Order to the Krak de Chevalier as suggested, and up the power-level of this building in those other areas to compensate. I felt this was a consolation prize holy city wonder :(

    Krak des Chevaliers -- Beside replacing the Castle for an Order, this one feels really powerful. I would remove the great general and either remove or tone-down the mounted unit bonus (50%!!). Military supply was so valuable in that game to me so maybe I'm overreacting there.

    Malwiya Minaret -- The stone works and quarries bonuses are fairly boring. You could up this to effect both (+1p+1fa on both, I mean) to bring it in line with the modern craftman pantheon effect.

    Mont Saint-Michel -- Loved it. Shame there was no other single tile island requirement as I felt this was super flavorful. Perhaps consider adding it to...

    Taipei 101
    -- It comes a bit late to make an impact if the science victory is possible. Having said that, not every wonder has to be good every game. I do think it needs to make more of an impact though. Either to drive home that culture victory condition or the diplo. At this stage, if a wonder wants to affect the diplo victory I think it needs to have flat votes on it, so perhaps you could give golden age and then flat votes.

    Palm Jumeirah -- Also comes so very late to do much. Decide on a victory type for the Taipei 101 and then take the other one for this wonder. It makes sense to make it a massive tourism boost. Change the gold boosts to Tourism and then maybe take the tourism/gold for allies thing from taipei and put it on this as flat tourism.

    I didn't get a decent lake city, and I didn't see the Rockefeller Center so I can't comment on those wonders. Gripsholm Castle looks a little dull but I have no bright ideas.
    Well done for this, it's fantastic.
     
    Infixo likes this.
  7. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    5,055
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Having an order given by an islamic wonder seems wrong to me... and yeah, I think that Solomon's temple would be a more fitting synagogue wonder. Hell, with Notre Dame, Mont St. Michel, St. Peter's basilica, AND the Sistine Chapel I think that it would be fair to just swap out one for the other... This is looking a bit heavy on Catholicism

    would it be possible to make Shwedagon's theming bonus scale with era? Like, it still has 4 slots, but gives 1/1/1 in classical, then 2/2/2 in rennaissance, then 3/3/3 in modern, and 4/4/4 in information?
     
  8. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,815
    Location:
    Lebanon
    @pineappledan

    Why? Orders are religion-agnostic. They're common in Buddhist and Islamic societies, even today.
     
  9. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,590
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warsaw
    1. I simply didn’t want to repeat free buildings. It was changed a bit in VP, so I will adjust it eventually.
    2. I am not aware of such a mechanic in game, is there?
     
  10. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    5,055
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    To my knowledge, there is only scaling by era for improvements, which has been implemented in VP, but is unused
    To my knowledge this is incorrect. There are 'orders' within islam, in a sense, but no equivalent to the knightly orders of Europe. The closest thing to military orders which the Islamic world produced were the Mamluks, Janissaries and Ghilman, but those are all examples of state-controlled slave soldiers which formed military societies. European orders were chivalric, religious insitutions organized by noblemen on perceived religious bases. Islamic military orders were primarily secular affairs, and their members were largely purchased or pressed into membership.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    NikMuazHakim likes this.
  11. Gaspare

    Gaspare Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Italy
    Could this mod mess something with one or more existing wonders? I've built Mausoleum of Alicarnassus in my current game (VP 1-14), but I'm not getting neither 100 gold bonus for expending great people, nor +2 gold from stone. I know that 99% is not this mod the culprit, and also it's not a big issue so I'm looking for a suggestion on which mod could cause the problem, because it could maybe mess with other wonders too without me realizing it...

    Here's the list of mods I've installed

     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    NikMuazHakim likes this.
  12. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,815
    Location:
    Lebanon
    Mausoleum was changed in VP. It provides +10% Production/Gold/Science in WLTKD.
     
    Infixo likes this.
  13. Gaspare

    Gaspare Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Italy
    Ha! The tooltip shows the old version though, I wonder if other wonders do it too. Thanks Ziad :)
     
    IcyAngel likes this.
  14. IcyAngel

    IcyAngel Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    534
    A few suggestions :)

    Spoiler :

    Gripsholm Castle and Kinkaku-ji are right by each other in the tech tree and both boost lakes; I'd suggest replacing the lake bonuses on Gripsholm with something else or to move the wonders farther apart.


    Karnak: with one flood plains this is already better than Stonehenge (+5 faith, +2 culture, +1 production, +25% religious pressure); with 2+ flood plains it's bonkers. I'd suggest lowering the culture to +1 and lowering the faith on flood plains to +1, to make it more situational and on par with early VP wonders.


    Krak des Chevaliers: worried about the +1 unit supply functionality now that Himeji does the same thing and the wonders are only two techs apart; could swap unit supply for +25% exp when buying units (making it 0.75exp), or simply +X exp? Or whatever else you see fit.


    Malwiya Minaret: very weak - you are looking at less than 1f/1p per city on average. In theory it pays for itself because of the free engineer, but considering the increased wonder cost in practice it's definitely not worth it. I'd suggest adding 2 flat faith and buffing the production to +2p per Stone Works. (I'd still not build it -I'm picky with my wonders :)-, but it's less punishing for the AI at least.)


    Nazca Lines: like Karnak this is way too good :) 4 plains already grant as much food as Hanging Garden, and the scaling is potentially immense. I'd nerf the food per plains to 1 and either the flat science or flat food to 1.


    Chartres Cathedral: almost useless now that a given city can only receive one trade route per major civ; what about you receive 10% faith of the cities YOU send a trade route to? And swap the gold on incoming/outgoing trade routes.


    Panama Canal: a bit weak at this point in the game - I'd swap the +3g to city owner to +3g from trade routes.


    ---------------


    Palace of Westminster vs Brooklyn Bridge: though to balance around Palace of Westminster because it's clearly the best policy wonder in the game (by far), but Brooklyn Bridge really pales in comparison to 6 delegates. What about making the +25% production to diplomatic units empire wide and also making it grant +25-50% to Great Diplomats rate in the city?


    White Sands Missile Range: shouldn't require oil imo; Guided Missiles are kind of fringe and you have no reason to build them -instead of buying them- with the exp changes, so the +25% production is kind of useless. (But the +25% to spaceship parts is great so it balances out.)


    Anitkabir: paper is rarely a limiting factor at this stage, and diplomatic units are almost always bought instead of built. Keep in mind, Trafalgar Square increases influence with all city-states by +50%! That's huge. I'd at least make this grant one free Great Diplomat, and make the generation of Great Diplomats empire wide.


    Generally I think the policy and ideology wonders are quite well balanced! Good job. :)

    The mod is very fun btw.
     
    Asterix Rage and Infixo like this.
  15. Giza

    Giza Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Quebec City
    This Mod is a great addition to VP ! Thanks for developing it !

    For balance, Karnak is really too strong. Every time I build it and I'm having a good game, i feel cheap. I once got a religion with it with one city !

    Nazca lines is less OP, i could use a small nerf, but it's not as bad as Karnak.
     
    Infixo likes this.
  16. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,815
    Location:
    Lebanon
    Eh to be honest it's very situational. I rarely spawn with flood plains within the workable radius. Then again I use Communitas and that map loathes deserts for some reason.

    That being said, you could probably reduce the faith by 1.
     
  17. glider1

    glider1 Deity

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,795
    Location:
    Where animals hop not run
    Infixo, with so many wonders, do you know why Whowards mod "wonder planner" loads up so slowly in VP and lately has stopped working altogether?
    It is potentially an awesome addition to VP. It doesn't make sense to me that it should be so slow and broken.
     
  18. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,590
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warsaw
  19. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    Unimproved Forests of Finland
    Minor note: I am able to build Malwya Minaret without my city being on a hill.
     
    Infixo likes this.
  20. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,590
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warsaw
    Version 2.0 ready! Lots of balance changes and new Wonder: Solomon's Temple that comes with the Ark of the Covenant. Also tweaked a bit WonderPopup so all texts should fit nicely.

    Many thanks for @hokath , @IcyAngel , @pineappledan and others for comments and suggestions.
     
    LukaSlovenia29 and IcyAngel like this.

Share This Page