Warmonger's Delight Part II - Aztec Style (AWN)

[katank]

We are doing well. It matters not vertical expansion advantage. Horizontal expansions first will always pay off better in the long haul especially after we take and develop Incan lands. Those lands are pretty juicy with greenery and resources.

It will be funny if the Incans and us are the only two civs who can reach each other on the coast. If so, we have an enormous advantage.

 

[Nad]

Just so you guys know, I'll be looking to play tomorrow. Last couple of nights have been rather busy.

 

[bihary]

Hi guys,

Let us discuss some.

1. Do we really want to capture the Inca cities or just raze them? I see it as all or nothing for the following reason: We want to take their capital if anything. Now that is not coastal, so we need the southern city as well to hook Incaland up. But then the most important resource we want is the ivory next to their western city... we then gain a cow, an elephant, and a dye. Sounds good, but our economy is already struggling, and we have 1-2 good spots to settle on our home continent too.
I say we capture them and keep them and improve them fast, but we do not build any more cities for a while. We will need at least 2 workers over there soonish.

2. How about our research? We will be a monster once our economy is back on track, but in the immediate future we will be rather slow. I see three viable short term goals.
A) Get Literature, build Great Library and the Epics.
B) Go after Monarchy and Feudalism (both vassalage and hereditary rule are good for us).
C) Go after Compass, Machinery, Optics. Build some caravels and explore and circumvent the Earth.
I would do them in the order above A) then B) then C).
The decision on research depends on us being isolated from the rest of the world or not, so we need to scout more with galleys.

3. How can we most efficiently improve our economy? I started lots of courthouses, I think those should be whipped ASAP. We may want to build a Monastery in our capital and build a few missionaries. According to the law of Morphy, just by doing that we would get some spontaneous spreading going, and the rest we convert. The shrine income can help us a lot. And of course, we should not forget our cottages...

What do you think?

 

[M60A3TTS]

If we keep the Incan towns, we need more workers to keep the economy apace. We still need a city on the southeast side of our own continent that has about 6 grass/forest tiles. That's very cottagable.

We also should figure out what our GP strategy is. Teno is kicking out 5GPP based on the shrine alone. Katank talked about a culture bomb, which is a good idea, but a prophet won't help us in that regard. Should we find a more suitable location for an artistic GP city, i.e. more excess food? I think so, and let Teno supply troops.

The research options all appear sound.

 

[Mahatmajon]

lurker's comment: I think you're going to mop up this game awfully easily. Since it's AW I think raging barbs will hurt the AI much more than it hurts you, Agressive AI also hurts the AI more than you (because they'll fight eachother more), & no tech trading will keep the AI pitifally behind in the mid & late-game. This is probably equivalent to a Warlord level game.

I like the AW SG's and you've had great turns & summaries so far, but Warmongers III without agressive AI, no raging barbs, & with tech trading will be interesting.

Difficulty: Noble
Variants: Always War, Raging Barbarians, Aggressive AI, No Technology Trading

 

[bihary]

If we keep the Incan towns, we need more workers to keep the economy apace. We still need a city on the southeast side of our own continent that has about 6 grass/forest tiles. That's very cottagable.

We also should figure out what our GP strategy is. Teno is kicking out 5GPP based on the shrine alone. Katank talked about a culture bomb, which is a good idea, but a prophet won't help us in that regard. Should we find a more suitable location for an artistic GP city, i.e. more excess food? I think so, and let Teno supply troops.

The research options all appear sound.

By capturing the Inca towns, we will probably capture a couple of workers too, they can start improving those lands.

I agree with the southeast city, in fact we could cram as many as 3 reasonable towns there, but I think we should only put one, getting the copper.

I do not understand your discussion on GPP. Teno is kicking out 5 gold per turn (+dividents once our market is in place) from the shrine now, that is gold. It makes 5 Priest Great People points per turn from Oracle+StoneHenge+Shrine. I would not make specialists in Teno, we need its industrial output, but I would build some more wonders there for their effect and for more GPP. I would not bother with an additional Great Person city, it would be shadowed by Teno anyway. I do not see the extreme usefulness of any Great Person for us actually, except some Great scientists to build Academies. That is why I advocate the Great Library.

I would use our food-heavy cities (of which we have many) by cottaging up, and whipping.

 

[bihary]

lurker's comment: I think you're going to mop up this game awfully easily. Since it's AW I think raging barbs will hurt the AI much more than it hurts you, Agressive AI also hurts the AI more than you (because they'll fight eachother more), & no tech trading will keep the AI pitifally behind in the mid & late-game. This is probably equivalent to a Warlord level game.

I like the AW SG's and you've had great turns & summaries so far, but Warmongers III without agressive AI, no raging barbs, & with tech trading will be interesting.

Difficulty: Noble
Variants: Always War, Raging Barbarians, Aggressive AI, No Technology Trading

Hi Mahatmajon,

I tend to agree with you. The only hard part I forsee maybe when ocean-going vessels can attack from all around, threatening our seafood and our continent proper. But maybe by that time we have already overwhelmed most of our enemies...
Let us see I say.

 

[Nad]

Inherited Turn 600AD

Everything looks good, we've had excellent discussion from team members (sorry if I've been a little quiet!) and our strategy is well thought-out and consistent. My vote would be to kill the Inca asap and expand onto their continent. The aim of the game is conquest though, so when we attack other continents we will be razing rather than capturing. For now, I think we need to consolidate a little, build the important infra that bihary mentioned (granaries, courthouse + forges especially), and improve our economy before we finish settling our own continent and the one we're about to kick the Inca off.

Only change I make is to move Tundra Guard and Real Shocker towards the siege area.

Turn 1, 620AD: moving units around.

Turn 2, 640AD: Horse Island's borders expand.

Turn 3, 660AD: Sheepcoast completes work boat (sent to Horse Island's crabs) and starts another. Mahavira is born in Tenochtitlan and joins the city as a super-specialist (tech offer was monotheism). Whip courthouse in PigRice and start bombarding Cuzco's defences.

Turn 4, 680AD: PigRice completes courthouse, starts granary. Spend another round bombarding Cuzco, will attack next turn.

Turn 5, 700AD: Cuzco now has a settler in the city - can you say free worker?

First cat bombards - Cuzco's defences are now 10% and the odds are in our favour. Second cat suicides (15.6%), dies but collaterally damages 2 units. Third cat bombards (no need for suicide). Jag (84.6%) kills archer, axe (99.5%) kills spear, axe (99.1%) kills archer and RAZES Cuzco, picking up a free worker.



I razed Cuzco because it's one tile off the coast and because we don't need the additional drain to our coffers at the moment.

Oh look, another free worker

Before:



After:




Turn 6, 720AD: alphabet researched, start literature. Tenochtitlan completes market, starts granary.

Turn 7, 740AD: Sheepcoast completes work boat (for East Coast's fish) and starts granary (we've previously been whipping here without a granary?!). East Coast's borders expand. Whip Gem City's courthouse.

Turn 8, 760AD: IronField completes library, starts forge. Gem City completes courthouse, starts forge.

Turn 9, 780AD: Ollantaytambo's turn. Cat suicide attacks (22.9%) to protect the rest of our forces, collaterally damages 1 unit and withdraws, what a bonus! Axe (71.0%) kills Incan axe. Axe (98.5%) kills archer and I decide to capture Ollantaytambo (on the coast, immediate access to resources, nice base).




Turn 10, 800AD: literature in, start music (somebody say they wanted a culture bomb? ). Tenochtitlan completes granary, starts Great Library.

Turn 11, 820AD: healing troops for Tiwanaku next.

Turn 12, 840AD: it appears there is another Incan city apart from Tiwanaku, it is further to the west and has expanded borders.

Turn 13, 860AD: resistance ends in Ollantaytambo, begin courthouse.

Turn 14, 880AD: SheepCoast completes granary and has a shot at the Colossus (11 turns).

Turn 15, 900AD: PigRice completes granary, starts forge. Pillage Incan ivory and bombard Tiwanaku. Rather than hand-off in the middle of a city capture, I'm gonna play 1 extra turn for a better handing-off point.

Turn 16, 920AD: cat suicide attacks archer (23.7%), dies but collaterally damages 2 units. Axe (87.0%) kills archer. Jag (99.6%) kills quecha. Real Shocker (100.0%) kills archer and razes Tiwanaku (1 tile off coast).



Here's how the front looks:



Might want to mop up those archers when they move to flat ground before going after the last Incan city.

Colossus and Great Library are due in 9 turns. Music is due in 3 turns at 100% science, assuming bihary was correct and Homer was born as a result of the Parthenon, then we should pop an artist which can be used for a culture bomb wherever required.

I went easy on the whip to allow cities to grow, the next player can use it more liberally if you wish.

I had us on infrastructure this round, once we have key buildings we can have a big settlement drive.


Nad...just played
M60A3TTS...UP NOW
jameson...ON DECK
ThERat
katank
bihary

10-15 turns per player, as you wish.

 

[M60A3TTS]

I do not understand your discussion on GPP. Teno is kicking out 5 gold per turn (+dividents once our market is in place) from the shrine now, that is gold. It makes 5 Priest Great People points per turn from Oracle+StoneHenge+Shrine.

My bad, I forgot Oracle & Stone were generating some of those points.

Should play tonight. May need another cat or two over in Incaville, but hopefully should be able to close the books on them.

 

[bihary]

Nice turns Nad.

If we *knew* a culture bomb would open a passage to a new continent otherwise blocked by ocean, I would do the culture bomb. Otherwise, I would just settle the artist to a town that could use some culture, but not bomb it, That way, we get some goldperturn too. Or we may want to save the artist for a golden age. Teno will soon generate a non-artist GP I think, especially with Great Library+National Epic. A golden age say 25 turns from now would be a great boon to break this game nice and clean.

I am still biting my nails about that northern island... I would seriously consider switching PigRice to a galley and checking it out. It would not be nice if 3 Greek galleys suddenly appeared from up there, would it. If the north is also surrounded by ocean, then it seems more and more likely that we are isolated.

 

[katank]

Culture bomb may be useful on some maps like continents/tilted axis/archipelago.

I think team continents are often well separated by ocean that not even a culture bomb can solve.

Nice turn set. I might have kept Cuozo since one tile off the coast isn't that big a deal in this case considering it only has 1 coast tile in its workable radius and settling on coast would waste a forest + require a settler. Then again, rebuilding it on the coast is certainly fine with me.

Looks like our war is going well.

The lurker's right, this is pretty easy. If we are playing on an open map like pangae, we may very well have more problems.

 

[M60A3TTS]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Warmonger::s_Delight_II_AD-1120.Civ4SavedGame

IBT- Two Incan archers attack and kill our axeman. One of their archers dies.

960AD- Move towards Incan city

IBT- Music> Monarchy (3). Ling Lung Great Artiste in Teno. Iron Field forge> market. Two Incan archers head into the open.

980AD- Axe and Jag send both archers to meet their ancestors.

1000AD- Quiet, but re-name newly promoted Jag “City Crusher”

1010AD- Quiet, but we are profusely bleeding cash. Science is cash positive at 50%.

1020AD- “Known Troublemaker” meets barb warrior on Ollantaytambo archery range and skewers it.

1030AD- Monarchy> machinery (13). Crossbows anyone? Hurry forge in PigRice

1040AD- Colossus in, start market in SheepCoast. Buddhism makes it’s way to Horse Island. Incas have a new town running. After thinking it over, I dig in rather than advancing to allow our two units to heal a couple turns.

1050AD- Teno Great Library> Heroic Epic

1060AD- Someone just became Philosophical. Taoism FIADL. Our invasion stack moves on again to the west. Our Spy Trawler spots a barb sword approaching the Incan city from the west. We’ll take all the help we can get. Known troublemaker kills another barb warrior, but he’s maxed at 10XP. Plan to bring over a fresh axe for training. Whip a market in Ironfield.

1070AD- Advance the troops.

IBT- Census Bureau reports two million happy Aztecs in the regime.

1080AD- Barb archer wants to play 18 holes at Pebble Beach. Jag buries him under it and gets a promotion. SheepCoast gets whipped for a market.

1090AD- Buddhism spreads to Olla. Big rocks reduce Machu Picchu defenses to 34%.
Whip a market in Gem City. North clam whips up a galley.

1100AD- More rocks and defenses at 28%. Not doing enough damage, will assault next turn and see what we get.

1110AD- Cat assaults at MP wound a quechua, but not the other defender who is an archer. Our cat survives at 0.2. Well someone has to die in the name of the empire. City Crusher volunteers to follow the path to glory. He dies, but accomplishes the mission as the archer city defender II is mortally wounded. Our Aztec bretheren let forth a mighty howl and the luckless quechua is ground to dust while 96 gold is liberated from the ruins of Machu Picchu.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/One_Incan_to_Go.JPG

Two wretched slaves are added to the booty. Science up to 80%, machinery in 1.

1120AD- Fort the troops by the ruins of MP for next up. Machinery in, horseback riding in 3 for some fast movers. North Clam got unhappy, so I applied the whip again. They’ll need a break for a while. Tundra Guard archer has barb axe adjacent, so I beat a retreat. Jag advances to a hill to scout out the remaining Incan town. Corihua has archer and quechua defending. Bring up an archer to support. And done. Archer, axe and jag are in top shape in Incaville, cat 0.2 and axe 2.9 (healing promotion available) need some rest, but with barb axes starting to show up in the AO, maybe we should move ahead to the last Incan holdout before defenders are built. Tundra Guard could join any attack from the SE while the main body approaches from the SW. There is another axe on the ground west of Ollantaytambo, with another loaded in a galley.

Artist Ling Lung is holed up in a Bed and Breakfast in Teno for use as needed.

 

[bihary]

Great turns!

The Inca will die soon. Their continent is already swarming with barbs.
It does look like we are alone now. I suggest we beeline for Optics and get some caravels out really fast.

I suggest we switch to Hereditary Rule. For 3 gpt we get much-needed happy faces. I think we should hook up an ivory soon, with Market it gives 2 happy faces, and we need those bad. Jumbos are nice too. I would even consider getting Calendar soon and hook up spices and dyes.

We have built many cottages, but we should use them too...

 

[M60A3TTS]

I suggest we switch to Hereditary Rule. For 3 gpt we get much-needed happy faces.

We certainly can. I didn't do it sooner, because I didn't want to risk losing out on GLibrary or Colossus by one turn. But they're in now, so it's ok.

 

[bihary]

We certainly can. I didn't do it sooner, because I didn't want to risk losing out on GLibrary or Colossus by one turn. But they're in now, so it's ok.

Well, we are Spiritual, so switching without anarchy is one of our advantages we should capitalize on...
On GL farming: It seems we have our secondary GL farm, SheepCoast. We have the Colossus there, and we should run an engineer there, and maybe a scientist too. SheepCoast has more than enough food to support that.

 

[bihary]

Anyone knows how to "go into windows mode"? Is it adventageous so you can make notes more easily while playing?

Anyone knows how to get the inbuilt log file and use it for reports?

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Anyone knows how to "go into windows mode"?

In the file "My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\CivilizationIV.ini", there's this entry:

; Specify whether to play in fullscreen mode 0/1/ask
FullScreen = 1

Change it to 0 (or "ask"). Helps tremendously with taking notes - no alt-tab delays.

Anyone knows how to get the inbuilt log file and use it for reports?

There used to be a dos utility somewhere on the CFC fora; don't know where exactly.

-Kylearan

 

[katank]

Why a second GP city? I never tend to like that as all the GP points go to waste elsewhere. Do we have a compelling reason not to build the national epic in Teno? We just need wall street there also. Did we cottage Teno? We should probably farm it all and run specialists to augment the GP generation.

Do we have civil service yet? I think irrigation chains are more important than caravels. Caravels are for circumnav and the AI is horribly inept at that.

Why are we going broke? Do we have courthouses everywhere yet?

 

[jameson]

I guess the second GP city was called for because that could give us more influence over what kind of GPs we generate. That's the downside to building Heroic Epic in Teno though; it goes better with West Point usually than with the National Epic.
I may actually cancel HE production in Teno and go for something else instead; since we have the shrine there, NE and Wall Street look better there for GPs and money and I don't think it really needs a further boost to producing troops.

Got it, will probably play tomorrow morning so feel free to chime in in the meantime .

 

[katank]

Agree whole heartedly. HE should never go into a shrine city.