Was it acceptable to ally with Uncle Joe in WWII?

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bhsup

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And no, I do not mean Vice President Biden.

Anyway, should the allies have gotten into bed with the Soviets in WWII? They were just as evil and murderous under Stalin as the Nazis were. Enemy of my enemy? Is it as simple as that?

For the record, I do think we did the right thing, btw. I'm just curious what others think about this.
 
Nazis were worse, and the USSR didn't attack us. The Axis did.
 
The Axis was Germany, Italy, Japan, and others, so yes the Axis did attack us (via Japan.)
 
The alternatives were worse.
 
It was justified since the Axis were the aggressors.

A lot of things were not justified, though, like Roosevelt betraying Eastern Europe.
 
Wasn't there something about American shipping in the Atlantic, too, as a cause for America entering the war against Germany? I'm sure there was.
 
Once Hitler stupidly declared war on the US, the Americans had no choice.
 
There was simply no choice, IMHO.

this.

Nothing more can be said. We could have tried to negotiate a separate peace, but remember it was the Soviets that took Berlin, not us. That kind of thing could have backfired on us. It was better this way.
 
Once Hitler stupidly declared war on the US, the Americans had no choice.
We did, actually, have a choice. We could have not sent the Soviet Union any Lend-Lease aid or coordinated strategy with them in any way, while continuing to fight the Hitlerites on our own.

It's just that that choice was stupid.
 
It was justified since the Axis were the aggressors.

A lot of things were not justified, though, like Roosevelt betraying Eastern Europe.

How did we betray Eastern Europe? All these things were worked out in conferences. It was agreed to let the Soviets have a sphere of influence over Eastern European countries.
 
Hitler stupidly declared war?

source

Spoiler :
On November 4, 1939, the Neutrality Act was revised and the arms embargo was repealed in favor of a one-sided supply [of weapons] to Germany's adversaries. In the same way, he pushed in eastern Asia for economic entanglements with China that would eventually lead to effective common interests. That same month he recognized a small group of Polish emigrants as a so-called government in exile, the only political basis of which was a few million Polish gold pieces they had taken from Warsaw.

On April 9 [1940] he froze all Norwegian and Danish assets [in the United States] on the lying pretext of wanting to keep them from falling into German hands, even though he knew full well, for example, that Germany has not interfered with, much less taken control of, the Danish government's administration of its financial affairs. Along with the other governments in exile, Roosevelt now recognized one for Norway. On May 15, 1940, Dutch and Belgian governments in exile were also recognized, and at the same time Dutch and Belgian assets [in the USA ] were frozen.

This man revealed his true attitude in a telegram of June 15 [1940] to French premier [Paul] Reynaud. Roosevelt told him that the American government would double its aid to France, on the condition that France continue the war against Germany. In order to give special emphasis to his desire that the war continue, he declared that the American government would not recognize acquisitions brought about by conquest, which included, for example, the retaking of territories that had been stolen from Germany. I do not need to emphasize that now and in the future, the German government will not be concerned about whether or not the President of the United States recognizes a border in Europe. I mention this case because it is characteristic of the systematic incitement of this man, who hypocritically talks about peace while at the same time he incites to war.

And now he feared that if peace were to come about in Europe, the billions he had squandered on military spending would soon be recognized as an obvious case of fraud, because no one would attack America unless America itself provoked the attack. On June 17, 1940, the President of the United States froze French assets [in the USA] in order, so he said, to keep them from being seized by Germany, but in reality to get hold of the gold that was being brought from Casablanca on an American cruiser.

In July 1940 Roosevelt began to take many new measures toward war, such as permitting the service of American citizens in the British air force and the training of British air force personnel in the United States. In August 1940 a joint military policy for the United States and Canada was established. In order to make the establishment of a joint American-Canadian defense committee plausible to at least the stupidest people, Roosevelt periodically invented crises and acted as if America was threatened by immediate attack. He would suddenly cancel trips and quickly return to Washington and do similar things in order to emphasize the seriousness of the situation to his followers, who really deserve pity.

He moved still closer to war in September 1940 when he transferred fifty American naval destroyers to the British fleet, and in return took control of military bases on British possessions in North and Central America. Future generations will determine the extent to which, along with all this hatred against socialist Germany, the desire to easily and safely take control of the British empire in its hour of disintegration may have also played a role.

After Britain was no longer able to pay cash for American deliveries he imposed the Lend-Lease Act on the American people [in March 1941]. As President, he thereby obtained the authority to furnish lend-lease military aid to countries that he, Roosevelt, decided it was in America's vital interests to defend. After it became clear that Germany would not respond under any circumstances to his continued boorish behavior, this man took another step forward in March 1941.

As early as December 19, 1939, an American cruiser [the Tuscaloosa] that was inside the security zone maneuvered the [German] passenger liner Columbus into the hands of British warships. As a result, it had to be scuttled. On that same day, US military forces helped in an effort to capture the German merchant ship Arauca. On January 27, 1940, and once again contrary to international law, the US cruiser Trenton reported the movements of the German merchant ships Arauca, La Plata and Wangoni to enemy naval forces.

On June 27, 1940, he announced a limitation on the free movement of foreign merchant ships in US ports, completely contrary to international law. In November 1940 he permitted US warships to pursue the German merchant ships Phrygia, Idarwald and Rhein until they finally had to scuttle themselves to keep from falling into enemy hands. On April 13, 1941, American ships were permitted to pass freely through the Red Sea in order to supply British armies in the Middle East.

In the meantime, in March [1941] all German ships were confiscated by the American authorities. In the process, German Reich citizens were treated in the most degrading way, ordered to certain locations in violation of international law, put under travel restrictions, and so forth. Two German officers who had escaped from Canadian captivity [to the United States] were shackled and returned to the Canadian authorities, likewise completely contrary to international law.

On March 27 [1941] the same president who is [supposedly] against all aggression announced support for [General Dusan] Simovic and his clique of usurpers [in Yugoslavia], who had come to power in Belgrade after the overthrow of the legal government. Several months earlier, President Roosevelt had sent [OSS chief] Colonel Donovan, a very inferior character, to the Balkans with orders to help organize an uprising against Germany and Italy in Sofia [Bulgaria] and Belgrade. In April he [Roosevelt] promised lend-lease aid to Yugoslavia and Greece. At the end of April he recognized Yugoslav and Greek emigrants as governments in exile. And once again, in violation of international law, he froze Yugoslav and Greek assets.

Starting in mid-April [1941] US naval patrols began expanded operations in the western Atlantic, reporting their observations to the British. On April 26, Roosevelt delivered twenty high speed patrol boats to Britain. At the same time, British naval ships were routinely being repaired in US ports. On May 12, Norwegian ships operating for Britain were armed and repaired [in the USA], contrary to international law. On June 4, American troop transports arrived in Greenland to build air fields. And on June 9 came the first British report that a US war ship, acting on orders of President Roosevelt, had attacked a German submarine near Greenland with depth charges.

On June 14, German assets in the United States were frozen, again in violation of international law. On June 17, on the basis of a lying pretext, President Roosevelt demanded the recall of the German consuls and the closing of the German consulates. He also demanded the shutting down of the German "Transocean" press agency, the German Library of Information [in New York] and the German Reichsbahn [national railway] office.

On July 6 and 7 [1941], American armed forces acting on orders from Roosevelt occupied Iceland, which was in the area of German military operations. He hoped that this action would certainly, first, finally force Germany into war [against the USA] and, second, also neutralize the effectiveness of the German submarines, much as in 1915-1916. At the same time, he promised military aid to the Soviet Union. On July 10 Navy Secretary [Frank] Knox suddenly announced that the US Navy was under orders to fire against Axis warships. On September 4 the US destroyer Greer, acting on his orders, operated together with British airplanes against German submarines in the Atlantic. Five days later, a German submarine identified US destroyers as escort vessels with a British convoy.

In a speech delivered on September 11 [1941], Roosevelt at last personally confirmed that he had given the order to fire against all Axis ships, and he repeated the order. On September 29, US patrols attacked a German submarine east of Greenland with depth charges. On October 17 the US destroyer Kearny, operating as an escort for the British, attacked a German submarine with depth charges, and on November 6 US armed forces seized the German ship Odenwald in violation of international law, took it to an American port, and imprisoned its crew.

Well, I wouldn't really know. This stuff is just too complicated for me.
 
How did we betray Eastern Europe? All these things were worked out in conferences. It was agreed to let the Soviets have a sphere of influence over Eastern European countries.

You were orders of magnitude stronger and could have pushed for a "Finlandization" of most of Eastern Europe (Ukraine was a lost cause, naturally), which Stalin was more than ready to accept. In fact he fully expected that outcome (or something even more against his interests) and was taken aback by Roosevelt's inapt negotiation.
 
Hitler stupidly declared war?

Well, I wouldn't really know.
You know, that's actually got a nugget of truth to it. The US and Germany were already fighting an undeclared naval war in the North Atlantic months before Pearl Harbor.
 
How did we betray Eastern Europe? All these things were worked out in conferences. It was agreed to let the Soviets have a sphere of influence over Eastern European countries.

Do you know what happened to the legitimate government in exile that escaped Poland? The one who provided several divisions of troops to the allies and waged a guerrilla war behind enemy lines for the entire war?

Hint: The Soviets didn't give them medals.
 
Nazis were worse, and the USSR didn't attack us. The Axis did.
1st part... says who? A lot more people died under Stalin/USSR than under Hitler... both wanted to dominate the world.

2nd part... absolutely correct. Japan attacked us, and Hitler declared war on us. We didn't have a choice really. FDR was trying to keep us out of it, but our hand was forced.
 
I wouldn't say he was trying to keep us out of it, were were unabashedly supplying the Allied war effort prior to any declaration. He was just trying to be sneaky about it.
 
1st part... says who? A lot more people died under Stalin/USSR than under Hitler... both wanted to dominate the world.
Dominate the world? They weren't comic book villains.

2nd part... absolutely correct. Japan attacked us, and Hitler declared war on us. We didn't have a choice really. FDR was trying to keep us out of it, but our hand was forced.
Who forced FDR's hand to lend and lease?
 
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