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We need space maps!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Snofru1, Mar 25, 2018.

  1. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

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    It is done!

    Earth-like exoplanet was handcrafted by me and tries to simulates tectonics. Hopefully resources are well placed across the map. Still unsure if exoplanet should have earth food and animals bonus in it.

    When I have more time I will create a dedicated thread for it. In the meantime, enjoy!
     
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  2. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Emperor

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    I have played about 2 hours with the Alien Solar System map (didn´t want to abbreviate it :mischief: ) and it looks great and runs without issue so far. I play in Marathon speed (research takes roughly 8 turns in the beginning) and Monarch difficulty. The other nations are not far away but it should be no problem to found 5 or 6 cities, even if everyone expands in the same speed.
    Thank you so much :thumbsup: !

    Added: I forgot to mention, that I also use Toffer´s PPIO and Raxo´s NoLatitudeLimitsForBuildings modmod.
     
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  3. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

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    Thank you for the feedback. Do you feel it's too cramped or just right for 7 civs? How are turn times by the way?

    And the name has to change, good observation. Any suggestions?
     
  4. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Standard sized map is 84x52 = 4 368 - has default of 7 players.
    Your earth is 60x40 = 2400 - half of Standard size, and slightly less than Small map (64x40)
    So your map is bit crowded.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
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  5. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Emperor

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    I don´t think it is too cramped, just ok, but that is only my personal feeling. And turn times are really short, I counted 4 seconds.

    You might call it the 4S map: Small Size Solar System (not sure how to call a standard size map though).
     
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  6. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    How about a completely different approach than multymaps? Maybe multiply games for multiply planets instead?
    What I think of is transferring data from one save game to another.
    It could go like this:
    When a player lunches the spaceship he could load a certain amount of units onto it. This data along with all his present techs, civic choices, state religion and diplomatic relations is saved to an other file (let's call it a syncfile for the moment) with the date when the spaceship arrives on the other planet. Every time a player lunches a spaceship, more data is is written to the syncfile.
    You could quit the present game and start a new "Off-world" game, say an Alpha Centauri colonization.The game would read the syncfile and add more opponents in the proper time. In the meanwhile you would explore the planet and struggle with native life.

    The advantages would be:
    • less demanding on performance
    • different map size and game speed would be possible
    • different options would be possible (don't want to deal with revolutions on the new planet?)
    The disadvantage is:
    • more tedious on the players' side
    • longer interaction periods between the two planets
    I don't know if you find anything useful in the above but it's just brainstorming :)
     
  7. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

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    Yeah I can see that. In the future I'll make a tiny sized with fewer civs and then a standard sized with 7 civs.
     
  8. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Interesting idea. Do you actually think it can be done though?
     
  9. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    It's an idea. Others more capable should decide if it can be done or not.
     
  10. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    And that's, "The Rub", as Wishbone Ash would sing.
     
  11. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    That is pretty close to what we have in mind, though we would maybe have a button in the map interface that, when clicked, saves the map you are on and loads the next map in the list from within one game.
    It may also be an automatic thing where every five end turns the next map in the list is loaded so you do one turn on the space map for every 5 turns on earth.
    It is still far away from actual implementation so it may be entirely different from what I'm stating here, though the ground idea is to treat each map as an individual map that is tied to the other maps in the set in some way.
     
  12. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I think he assumed, that you aren't good at c++/python :p
     
  13. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Which "he" did the assuming? And yes I am No Good at C++/python. I "fiddle" with xml variables.
     
  14. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    It should pretty much be every round you'll want to interact with each map as long as you have units/cities/activities taking place there. It might be a little time consuming but by the time you've played that far into the game, the cool factor I think would still make it worth it.
     
  15. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    Me either.
    What I meant was: Others more capable than me should decide if it can be done or not.
    I didn't mean to sound sarcastic or anything.

    But that actually has a pretty high burden on performance resulting in a very slow, un-enjoyable game play.
    Not for me if you mean 5 minutes playing, 5 minutes AI turn and 10 minutes of loading the other map.

    I wonder if running two instances of Civ4 could be a good thing. Civ4 cannot handle more than 4GB but a 64bit OS with more than 8GB RAM could handle two instances of Civ4. So my idea was to play Earth in one and Space in the other instance.
    I haven't tried yet but here's How to Run Multiple Versions of the Same Program on Your PC
    Maybe I'm wrong and all I said above is completely wrong and useless but it's only brainstorming.
     
  16. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    How so, only one of the maps/saves would be played, and loaded in memory, at any one time.
    I guess all the save game loading could be un-enjoyable in the long run though; that might have been what you meant...
     
  17. alberts2

    alberts2 Emperor

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    For the players multiple maps in one game seem much more playable.
    Multiple maps alone won't increase the memory usage alot. The additional terrain and terrain feature graphics for other planets and space have a bigger memory impact as a few maps would have.

    However the biggest memory consumer especially in C2C are units so if you have lots of units on different maps C2C will reach the memory limit again. A few years ago memory allocation failures where pretty common in C2C even on Standard sized maps. But after the removal of a few Civilizations, Sparth's art file cleanups and my memory leak fixes playing one map has become pretty stable in terms of memory usage.
     
  18. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    Okay, thanks for the info :) That made things clearer.
     
  19. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I think this thread can be for spacemap makers

    TPEHEP don't post in SVN thread.
    Remove ice at 3 tiles from space.
    S - Space tile
    O - Ocean (can be two tiles of mountain separating Earth from space)
    O
    I - Ice feature

    Barbarians won't get third ring radius too fast anyway.

    By the way space feature placement on vertical spacemaps is completely off.
    Space features can be used by buildings only in certain zones.
    Also there is no need for alien earth - AI can't into space yet.

    Lunar Crater - Solar System planets, Moons and Asteroid terrain except Venus and Titan.
    Asteroids - Inner and Outer Solar System, Transneptunian.
    Planetary Ring, Small Moon - Outer Solar System and Transneptunian
    Sednoid - Transneptunian
    Oort Cloud - Transneptuntian and Transtellar
    Carbon/Chthonian/Desert/Hot Jupiter/Mini Neptune/Super Earth/Water/Rogue planets, White/Brown Dwarf - Transtellar
    Blue Dwarf, Blue Giant, Black Hole - Orion Arm, Milky Way and Galactic Core
    Supermassive Black Hole - Galactic Core
    Dwarf Galaxy, Galaxy - Local Group and Virgo Supercluster, (Dwarf) galaxies should be in clusters on Virgo Supercluster.
    Quasar - Cosmos

    Look at my space map to see how I made 11 space zones.

    I made guide to spacemap making earlier, I'll copy it here.
    Spoiler Guide to terrains and features in space zones :

    Spoiler Resource placement guide :

    Only these resources may be placed in space.
    - Iron/Bauxite/Titanum Ore, CO2 Ice and Helium3 - must be placed on Moon, these are ones, that can be extracted on Moon.
    - Organic Volatiles. On asteroid/KBO terrains or features.
    - Metallic Asteroid. Metal-rich asteroid wherever in the solar system asteroids are found.
    - Martian Blueberries. On Mars.
    - Extraterrestrial Microbes. Wherever in the solar system (other than Earth) there might be microbial life.
    - Xenoflora. Native plant life in planets outside the Solar System.
    - Xenofauna. Native animal life in planets outside the solar system.
    - Abandoned Civilization. In the galaxy, some long lost civilization.
    - Abandoned Megastructure. The astroengineering ruins of some advanced civilization, outside the galaxy.
    - Exotic Lifeforms. Things like space whales that are found near our beyond the edge of the observable universe.
    - Quantonium Crystal. Not new but now it can be found outside the observable universe.



    Near Earth plot types:
    Orbit, Cislunar Space - Space Plot
    Lunar Dome/Highland/Mare/Regolith/Rille - Lunar Plot
    Spoiler Cislunar :

    Zone 0 - Low Earth Orbit
    Orbit (To separate Earth)
    3 tiles thick orbit is recommended so space colonies can't work on earth tiles - space colonies are able to utilize 3 tile radius.
    Space stations can be anywhere on orbit, so your first cislunar stations would touch orbit.

    Zone 1 - Moon with Cislunar space
    Background: Cislunar Space
    Moon terrains and Iron/Bauxite/Titanum Ore, CO2 Ice and Helium3 resources on Moon terrain.


    Solar System plot types:
    Inner Solar System - Solar System Plot
    Martian Barren/Desert/Dunes/Ice/Permafrost/Plains/Rocky - Martian Plot
    Venus/Venus Highlands/Venus Lowlands - Venusian Plot
    Hot Rocky Planet (Mercury), Asteroid Surface - Solar System and Jovian Plot
    Sun - Solar System and Plasma Plot

    Outer Solar System - Solar System Plot
    Asteroid Surface - Solar System and Jovian Plot
    Gas Supergiant (Jupiter), Volcanic Moon (Io), Oceanic Moon (Europa), Large Moon (Ganymede), Rock and Ice Moon (Callisto) - Solar System and Jovian Plot
    Lava Ocean (Io) - Aquatic, Solar System and Jovian Plot
    Subsurface Ocean (Europa) - Aquatic, Subterranean, Solar System and Jovian Plot

    Ringed Gas Giant (Saturn), Geyser Moon (Enceladus) - Solar System and Jovian Plot
    Methane Moon (Titan) - Titanic Plot
    Methane Ocean (Titan) - Aquatic, Solar System and Jovian Plot

    Ice Giant (Uranus), Cold Moon (Umbriel) - Solar System and Jovian Plot
    Cold Ice Giant (Neptune), Very Cold Moon (Triton) - Solar System and Jovian Plot

    Transneptunian Space - Solar System Plot
    Kuiper Belt Objects - Solar System and Jovian Plot
    Spoiler Solar System :

    Zone 2 - Inner Solar System
    Background: Inner Solar System
    Mars terrains
    Venus terrains
    Hot Rocky Planet (Mercury)
    Sun for decoration

    Asteroid (terrain) - on border between Inner Solar System and Outer Solar System (asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter).
    Asteroid (feature) should form solid line on Inner/Outer solar system.
    Both Asteroid terrain and feature can be scattered on inner/outer/ solar system and transneptunian space.
    Asteroid belt should act as glue having its Asteroid Terrains and Features on Inner and Outer solar system.

    Zone 3 - Outer Solar System
    Background: Outer Solar System

    Gas Supergiant (Jupiter)
    Volcanic Moon with Lava Ocean (Io)
    Oceanic Moon with Subsurface Ocean (Europa)
    Large Moon (Ganymede)
    Rock and Ice Moon (Callisto)

    Ringed Gas Giant (Saturn)
    Methane Moon with Methane Ocean (Titan)
    Geyser Moon (Enceladus)
    Small Moon and Planetary Rings feature would be useful only at Saturn - all small moon does is allow some world wonder, and planetary rings don't do anything for now.

    Ice Giant (Uranus)
    Cold Moon (Umbriel)

    Cold Ice Giant (Neptune)
    Very Cold Moon (Triton)

    Single kuiper belt object (representing Pluto and its moons) would be useful on border between outer solar system and transeptunian space.

    If making bigger one like 2x2, then it should be on border of Outer Solar System and Transneptunian space.

    Zone 4 - Transneptunian Space
    Background: Transneptunian Space
    Sednoids, Asteroids (features) and Kuiper Belt Objects are spread across whole zone.
    Oort cloud should be on border between transeptunian and transtellar space, being on two different zones.


    Galactic plot types:
    Transtellar Space - Galactic and Interstellar Plot
    Red Dwarf, Sun-Like Star, Red Giant - Galactic and Plasma Plot
    Orion Arm, Neutron Star, Nebula, Star Cluster - Galactic and Milky Way Plot
    Milky Way, Galactic Core - Galactic and Milky Way Plot
    Spoiler Galaxy :

    Zone 5 - Nearby Stars
    Background: Transtellar Space
    Oort Cloud at border with Transneptunian space
    Stars:
    Red Dwarf, Sun-Like Star, Red Giant - terrain
    Brown Dwarf, White Dwarf - feature

    Planets (they all are features) - 8 types:
    Carbon Planet
    Chthonian Planet
    Desert Planet
    Hot Jupiter
    Mini Neptune
    Rogue Planet
    Super Earth
    Ocean Planet

    Zone 6 - Orion Arm
    Background: Orion Arm
    Stars:
    Neutron Star, Nebula, Star Cluster - terrain
    White Dwarf, Black Hole, Blue Dwarf, Blue Supergiant - feature

    Zone 7 - Whole Milky Way
    Background: Milky Way
    Galactic Core - its like Moon for Cislunar space - it needs to cover large fraction of whole zone.
    Star Cluster terrain can be densely placed in core and not so densely in milky way.

    Black Hole, Blue Dwarf and Blue Supergiant - stellar features, can be more densely packed in core too.
    Supermassive Black Hole - feature, single unit at center of Milky Way.


    Extragalactic plot types:
    Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Observable Universe, Intergalactic Void - Universal Plot
    Distant Cosmos - Distant Plot
    Hyperspace, Distant Past/Future, Branespace - Hyperspace plot
    Spoiler Universe :

    Zone 8 - Local Group
    Background: Local Group
    Dwarf Galaxy (feature) can be spread sparsely across whole zone.

    Zone 9 - Virgo Supercluster
    Background: Virgo Supercluster
    Galaxies should be rarer than Dwarf Galaxies (both of them are features), but overall density can be higher.

    Zone 10 - Universe
    Background: Observable Universe
    Intergalactic Void can be spread in such way, that Observable Universe looks like thick web.
    Quasars (feature) should be placed at far edge of universe

    Zone 11 - Infinity and i*kilometer more
    Background: Distant Cosmos
    Nothing here, just Distant Cosmos.

    Zone 12 - Beyond conventional Spacetime
    Background: Hyperspace
    While Hyperspace can be created artificially, you can place it on map where you have (Un)Observable Universe Zones.

    As for Branespace, Distant Past and Distant Future they can be terraformed on Hyperspace plots - you could dot with them Hyperspace islands.

     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  20. TPEHEP

    TPEHEP Prince

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    In the case of my map, is unacceptable :(

    But thanks anyway
     
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