What 10 Civilizations will be in Beyond the Sword?

[Pratputajao]

Powerful civs get bigger and bigger, not the other way around. At it height, the DAi Viet Empire covered all of the current Indochina, parts of China,Siam, and Burma. The so-called Khmer Empire has been being vassal of Viet for centuries.

Vietnam was a poweful kingdom, but they never extended rule into Siam or Burma. Nor did Either give tribute to Vietnam. For a time Vietnam controled all of modern day laos and much of Cambodia. That is the extent of Vietnamese control in Indo china

The map you show there while an intersting piece of antiquity is a bit off historically

 

[dutchking]

In closing: POLAND SUCKS.

I agree that Poland won't be in Bts or anything, but I wouldn't say that they completely suck. Just kidding. I looked at the map TheLastOne96 put up and I think they should put Austria-Hungary (that or one or the other) to put more representation into Eastern Europe. This is a game about WORLD history, so we need to please everyone in the WORLD!

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Powerful civs get bigger and bigger, not the other way around. At it height, the DAi Viet Empire covered all of the current Indochina, parts of China,Siam, and Burma. The so-called Khmer Empire has been being vassal of Viet for centuries. While Viet had alot of successful wars against other giants like the Mongols, Chinese .... in Khmer's view Viet is the giant

I'm not sure where you heard that, but I'm pretty sure Dai Viet never gained the whole of the Indochina region.

And actually, it was the Ayutthaya kingdom that was the giant that stomped on the Khmer Empire. The Thai kingdoms gave the Khmers the most headaches. Ayutthaya assaulted and sacked Angkor. The Khmer kingdom was still around afterwards, except that the main seat of governance moved south to Phomh Penh.

 

[Koelle]

Uhmm, no one see my map?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Yes, we've seen your map. But it looks more like it's from the French Colonial period when they established a unified "Indochina." The Emperors of Vietnam were still in place, but under French power. Also one thing of note is that the name of the Thai kingdom is "Siam." "Siam" was the name of Thailand in the 18th century, before that and before the Burmese invasion, it was Ayutthaya.

 

[Pratputajao]

Uhmm, no one see my map?

Yes I have seen that map 3 times now and as interesting as it is as an antique, it is incorrect. But then again I am not sure how you can make out much any way; it isnt very clear. But it looks like it is saying Annam ruled Lanna, small part of Siam over to Burma. Uhmm no. This is historically wrong. Vietnamese never ruled these parts of indochina. Siam did, Vietnam never did. Just becouse it is Old doesnt mean it is historically accuarate. In fact I have seen many old maps that are useless historically.

The so-called Khmer Empire has been being vassal of Viet for centuries.

I respect your love of your motherland but I must call it when it is wrong. Vietnam was the sole "ruler" of Cambodia/Laos for 10-15 years In that only it recieved tribute and had troops stationed there. However These countries where vassels of Auyyuthaya (Siam) many times since about the 15th cent. For many years in the 19th cent Khmer had two masters though Siam held more power. This is evident by the fact that Khmer paid triannual tribute to Vietnam and Annual tribute to Siam also pledging men in times of war.

This is not to take away from Vietnam! Vietnam was able to repel a massive Siamese invasion in the early 19 cent. (though there were other factors as well)

 

[Pratputajao]

But it looks more like it's from the French Colonial period when they established a unified "Indochina."

This makes more sence but even then it is an exageration. French control never reached the Burmese border much less take any burmese territory. That belonged to the English. Also French had no control in N. Siam (Lanna)

But really I cant make out much at all from that map. Oh and actually Ayuthaya was known as Siam. The names was interchagable in Europe I believe (though the Thai NEVER called themselves Siamese though some now want to change back....go figure?)

 

[GoodSarmatian]

At a lesser extent, Yougoslavia gets my vote too but I must fear neither Poland nor Yugoslavja will be in BtS.

Yugoslavia would be nice, but the state didn't exist long enough to be in Civ.
I'd rather see Medieval Serbia under Stefan Uroš IV Dušan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Uro%C5%A1_IV_Du%C5%A1an_of_Serbia.
Serbia was not an important factor in history when compared to Germany or the later colonial powers of Europe, but it helped to kick off World War I and all the "important civs" of Europe are already in the game (well, except Austria-Hungary).

 

[09camaro]

Yugoslavia? umm... try no!
that reigon is too unstable... the land of the serbs, croats, and slovanes are still at civil war...
please... Romania would be better. and on Ukraine... they are a different race than the Russians. there are White Russians (Belarussia) Red Russians (Russia) and Ukraineians...

 

[TheLastOne36]

Ukraine is still to much like Russia, so could we stop talking about Ukraine?

Bulgaria and Romania are nice options, but over Poland and Austria? come on!

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

This makes more sence but even then it is an exageration. French control never reached the Burmese border much less take any burmese territory. That belonged to the English. Also French had no control in N. Siam (Lanna)

Now that you mention it, that is quite peculiar. Wonder from what period did this map come from? Perhaps it was simply made by European mapmakers that didn't know about the other kingdoms in the area?

 

[Tee Kay]

Now that you mention it, that is quite peculiar. Wonder from what period did this map come from? Perhaps it was simply made by European mapmakers that didn't know about the other kingdoms in the area?

My guess is that it's probably around 1700 (judging from the fact that it's "Siam" not "Yudia"). Around this time Burma and Vietnam were quite powerful but nevertheless Vietnam never controlled any Siamese territories. The extent of its control is Laos and Cambodia which was soon lost to Siamese armies.

 

[Saim]

I actually find it very Eurocentric that people are saying 'Eastern Europe has too little representation'. I think of Europe as a whole. Plus, if you believe in the definitions 'Southern Europe' and 'Northern Europe' Eastern Europe is even smaller.

Also by that logic, we need another Southern Asian civ, since we only have 1 (if you don't include Persia). For that matter, we only have one civ from the Arabian Peninsula and only one civ from Western Africa. Those areas are the size of Eastern Europe, if not bigger!

And Stefan Dusan would be a better choice than Stefan Uros, not that I want Serbia in .

 

[Menzies]

How's about no, shut up and vote Hitler [in to the game]. Europe is some of the best land on the planet whilst the Arabian penisula is quite frankly not so good in the agricultural department. Currently Saudi Arabia has no rivers and it makes up a good 90% of the arabian penisula. Now if everything was based on size and not populous and how good a civilization. The following "civs" would be in it. Canada, Australia, Brazil... big countries. We don't need to represent everyone, this isn't just some democratic election. This is picking the most significant civilization of History and having them in with their most significant leaders, not: 'WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I'M 1/64 POLYNESIA [incredibly vague discription] AND THEIR NOT REPRESENTED!!! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH, WHYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!! THEY MIGHT ALREADY BE REPRESENTING EVERY OTHER PART OF ME BUT NOW I WANT TO SEGREGATE THE USA INTO THE EUROPEANS AND THE NATIVE AMERICANS INSTEAD OF SHOWING SOME GOD DAMNED NATIONAL SPIRIT AND SHOW I'M A SELF RIGHTIOUS [generic swering] AND I WANT TO KEEP RELIVING PEOPLES HARD SHIP AND UNWILLINGNESS TO GET ON WITH THEIR LIVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN THROUGH THIS GAME!!!!'

I'm going to create a threat for people like you to winge on. So just keep this winging out of here. It's going to be called WIIIIINNNNGGE!!!!. Just type any ol' ALP sort of thing in it.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

two words, calm down

 

[sennomulo]

Orange is ones that are in civ 4.

That settles it folks. The remaining two civilizations are Greenland and Azerbaijan.

 

[Menzies]

Obviosly Tunisia is the modern version of Carthage. In the same way that the Byzantine and the Ottoman empire [along with the roman] were all the same thing. Now for someone talking about past 'great' empires you are using an awefully new map. If fact newer than July last year when Montenegro split from Serbia and became a country.

Also Greenland is a part of Denmark, which is equaly not in the game. Unless you count the Vikings, and even then Greenland should't be part of that.

 

[Pratputajao]

Now that you mention it, that is quite peculiar. Wonder from what period did this map come from? Perhaps it was simply made by European mapmakers that didn't know about the other kingdoms in the area?

I am kinda getting that feeling. I can think of no time that that map represents accurately... but then again I cant really read any of the names on the map so who knows it could be completely accurate and we are just reading it wrong?

 

[Menzies]

I can, RIGHT NOW!!!

 

[GoodSarmatian]

And Stefan Dusan would be a better choice than Stefan Uros, not that I want Serbia in .

I think we are talking abuot the same guy. Stefan Uros IV Dusan who doubled his teritory by conquest and proclaimed himself emperor of all Serbs and Greeks.

But right now CIV is too eurocentric.
Africa is only representated by Catrhage, Mali, and the Zulu, they should at least add Aksum.