What after the New Frontier Pass - the end or more

[Jewelrunna]

I personally wouldn't be surprised if they're already putting in the foundational work for Civ VII, especially with Humankind on the horizon. One reason I hopped on a Civ hiatus was because I got to play Humankind in the beta, and already I feel like Firaxis is in big trouble if Civ VII doesn't radically shake up the franchise. There's so many good ideas present in Humankind already that make it far, far more appealing to me than Civ VI in a lot of ways. Seeing the new ideas in that game compared to how unfortunately tame Civ VI's introductions were (even though there's a lot of great ideas present in Civ VI) and the way they were applied into the game felt a lot better than in Civ VI (for instance, as much as I love districts, they could be a lot better). If Humankind is a success, I hope it's a big wake up for Firaxis, because as much as Civ VI frustrates me, I still love the franchise and its personality (which that, at least, is an advantage it has over Humankind).

That said, I doubt they're hard committed on Civ VII if they're working on it right now, just setting the groundwork. I think the balance patch in April is a good sign that they're wrapping up development on Civ VI. However, I also think there's a lot of room to grow in Civ VI as well, so I wouldn't be totally surprised if there's a final expansion or a "Final Frontier" pass. The NFP introduced a lot of gameplay mechanics, some of them really cool (Secret Societies and Heroes/Legends) and some of them underwhelming (lookin' at you, Apocalypse Mode). The new districts also tells me that mechanics has a lot of room to be fleshed out even further, and there's a lot of creative Civ designs they can still work towards. I've really loved all of the NFP Civ designs, even the underpowered ones like Maya are still cool from a design perspective. On top of that, if we're to assume that Portugal is the last Civ to be added (just makes sense to me), then we still have a huge blind spot for African and Native American Civs, on top of some pretty influential Civilizations that we're leaving out (Austria, Siam, Denmark, Italy/Florence/Venice, Assyria), and a lot of Civs you could throw an extra leader onto (Egypt, Arabia, Germany, Russia, and Rome are the ones that jump out at me the most).

This post went on a lot longer than I thought it would, but TL;DR: I'm going to assume that April will mark the end of Civ VI's development cycle, and they'll probably start working towards Civ VII to better compete with Humankind, but I also wouldn't be totally surprised to see a Final Frontier Pass if it happens.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

That's not completely accurate. These are extra toppings you can add to the game. They never confirmed one would be the cherry on top yet.

If you are talking about adding new mechanics yes you are right on that, but nobody here is saying that a Final Frontier will completely introduce new mechanics.

Did I say second NFP is not an option? I don't know what's your point here

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Did I say second NFP is not an option? I don't know what's your point here

Usually when people say that something is "a cherry on top" they mean that its the end, which is what I thought you were implying, considering cherries are usually the last thing that you put on top of an ice cream sundae.

 

[nzcamel]

Brian's one of the devs! I forgot about his beard.

How can you say that beard is forgettable?!

It may have something to do with me rocking a similar beard, but WOW!

I'd also point to an effect I'd like to call "Rome vs. Last Civ". Rome will always be in the first roster and will always take quite simple effects. After all, they have to design it at the same time as ~18 other civs and every straightforward effect is still available. It will always be a kind of generalist. On the other hand, take the "Last Civ", in this case Vietnam. It has quite interesting abilities with synergies between its bonuses and offers quite specialized gameplay. It is more complex than Rome. And since you have to pay extra for it, the "last civ" is also probably stronger. But shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't the bigger names have the better abilities?

Anyways, the answer to your question is imho breadth versus depth. Currently, every civ they add is complete. But what if they add a broad roster of civs at the start, and deepen them later on? That way, the popularity of Rome could entice the casual players to buy the DLC as well. Also, they kinda become non-optional that way. No sure if that's a good thing. But only from a gameplay point of view, I'd like them to take civ7 in a direction where they can make Rome interesting again in the later stages of a game development.

You are certainly asking the right question here.

I actually think that's a brilliant idea. Have it known from the outset that with every new expansion or pass that existing Civs will gain a new ability, or something like that. It's a natural offset to power creep, and the interest generated with each new expansion would double for me!!
It wouldn't have to be compulsory to buy them. If you don't buy the new expansion/pass, your Civs stay as they were.

 

[Gradac]

I have seen a lot of people mentioned Humankind game as some sort of doom for Civilization franchise. Like if Humankind is so good it will significantly lower selling of any new Civilization iteration or endanger continuation of civ 6 extra developments.

I really don’t see it that way. Someone like me with 55 years of life experience can’t bait that. And I am not saying it will not affect it at all, but mildly. It is an established franchise that have their large and faithful consumers since last century (something like iron maiden concert fans ).

I didn’t like all of civ iterations some of them where more to my taste some really not, however, I owned them all since civ2. And I will continue.

That said, any competition is good for Sid Meyer’s civilization franchise too, not the other way around. Same apply if Humankind is “better” than the last of civs in the line. Consumers for this kind of games won’t shrink by my opinion but enlarged with in the future.

Also: Not related with above passes in my post.
If I understood well, for Humankinds game, you do not play particular tribe or civilization or nation (call it however you want) but some kind of Frankenstein made of different tribes from different eras (or you are stuck with options from ancient civilization) is a big STOP for me. That’s not for me personally, no matter what kind of gameplay is after this fact.


And to stay more on the topic, which was my intention, sorry I wandered around


I also do still hope, that updating 2/3 of civilization/leaders in April doesn’t mean completely finishing with Civ6. I think it is still equally possible (or not) like a couple of days ago when I opened this thread.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Usually when people say that something is "a cherry on top" they mean that its the end, which is what I thought you were implying, considering cherries are usually the last thing that you put on top of an ice cream sundae.

"As long (as) they can monetize DLC's and have enough free dev resources to create (them), this option is on a table.What after the New Frontier Pass - the end or more
The cherry on the top part is not mine. I have quoted (perhaps not literally) Anton Strenger from NFP announcement video. They also said Civ is a completed game and NFP modes will just add some flavor. Nothing big.

 

[Gradac]

It may have something to do with me rocking a similar beard, but WOW!

I actually have something like that in slightly different color, that I am very proud of ... although my wife call it Brush

 

[Jewelrunna]

I have seen a lot of people mentioned Humankind game as some sort of doom for Civilization franchise. Like if Humankind is so good it will significantly lower selling of any new Civilization iteration or endanger continuation of civ 6 extra developments.

I really don’t see it that way. Someone like me with 55 years of life experience can’t bait that. And I am not saying it will not affect it at all, but mildly. It is an established franchise that have their large and faithful consumers since last century (something like iron maiden concert fans ).

I didn’t like all of civ iterations some of them where more to my taste some really not, however, I owned them all since civ2. And I will continue.

That said, any competition is good for Sid Meyer’s civilization franchise too, not the other way around. Same apply if Humankind is “better” than the last of civs in the line. Consumers for this kind of games won’t shrink by my opinion but enlarged with in the future.

Also: Not related with above passes in my post.
If I understood well, for Humankinds game, you do not play particular tribe or civilization or nation (call it however you want) but some kind of Frankenstein made of different tribes from different eras (or you are stuck with options from ancient civilization) is a big STOP for me. That’s not for me personally, no matter what kind of gameplay is after this fact.


And to stay more on the topic, which was my intention, sorry I wandered around


I also do still hope, that updating 2/3 of civilization/leaders in April doesn’t mean completely finishing with Civ6. I think it is still equally possible (or not) like a couple of days ago when I opened this thread.

I don't disagree with you, but if Humankind--a game produced by studio with a pretty significant following, if a fraction of Firaxis'--is a massive critical success and successful commercially as well while producing a game that is a direct competitor to Civ, then it'll look poorly on Firaxis' part that they've let their series stagnate by comparison.

Really I'm not anticipating the downfall of Civ or anything close to that, but what I am hoping for is that for one, Humankind is a banger of a game, and two that it has enough success to make Firaxis sweat just a little. If both games are in competition, maybe it'll mean that both Amplitude and Firaxis elevate the 4x genre to a new level, and we get some amazing games.

EDIT: I'll also share my sentiment that I was somewhat skeptical of a lot of the ideas in Humankind before trying the beta, especially the evolving civilization concept, but after playing it, Humankind exceeded all my expectations. I highly recommend you guys try it when it comes out, because I was floored by it just from the beta version.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

By the way I don't know if someone else commented but we got the dev with the amazing beard back on stream. It seems he wasn't apparently busy working on another project, but the lead designer on the upcoming monopolies and corporations game mode.

 

[theRoyzen]

I see it a lot like @Gradac
And I would prefere they do it like Nintendo with the last iteration of Smash, bringing all Civ's back and add more, so the could monetize it longer and would make a lot of people happy, that their civ is finaly in or back.

 

[anonxanemone]

I see it a lot like @Gradac
And I would prefere they do it like Nintendo with the last iteration of Smash, bringing all Civ's back and add more, so the could monetize it longer and would make a lot of people happy, that their civ is finaly in or back.

I hear Sakurai of Super Smash Bros. was hospitalized in bringing all previous characters back. Let's hope the same doesn't happen to Firaxis if they attempt this.

 

[theRoyzen]

I hear Sakurai of Super Smash Bros. was hospitalized in bringing all previous characters back. Let's hope the same doesn't happen to Firaxis if they attempt this.

Of course, I wish no one something bad. Human health shoud be number one in every firm or corporation, but sadly, isn't everytime.

 

[acluewithout]

More important developers are rather clear on this topic: Civ VI is completed and NFP is a cherry on top. So the only thing we can expect is new game modes that are not core game mechanics.

If you are talking about adding new mechanics yes you are right on that, but nobody here is saying that a Final Frontier will completely introduce new mechanics.

And yet, we get a Corporations Mode. Content that is basically a new core Mechanic but FXS have decided to deliver it as a Game Mode.

I don’t know if there’s anything more after NFP. But FXS have certainly set the game up to enable further expansion - lots room to add mechanics via Game Modes, lots of room in the tech tree and unit lines, lots of ideas and concepts they haven’t tackled yet, options to add new leaders or rework leaders. And I honestly don’t see what Civ 7 would really add to justify itself. It would need to be such a massive change in direction for Civ, that there’s a huge risk people just wouldn’t be interested.

Like, FXS could easily do a Global Conflicts mini-dlc. 2 or 3 game modes focused on Ideology and Spies and World Congress. Some Alt leaders. Some more units.

Or they could do a sci-if dlc. Beyond Earth style scenario. Some Game Modes that focus on future wars, AI, whatever. Some Alt leaders. Some more units.

You get the idea.

Maybe this NFP the end. Maybe not. There must be an end at some point, even if it’s only with the heat death of the universe. But people have said it’s the end after every expansion and, like huckleberry twain, reports of fat ladies singing have clearly been exaggerated.

But to me, with all the room FXS have given themselves to expand the game, I find it hard to believe they’d stop more content if people are happy to keep paying for it. Solid dependable work streams are kinda what you want commercially.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I see it a lot like @Gradac
And I would prefere they do it like Nintendo with the last iteration of Smash, bringing all Civ's back and add more, so the could monetize it longer and would make a lot of people happy, that their civ is finaly in or back.

Well I don't need them all back.

And yet, we get a Corporations Mode. Content that is basically a new core Mechanic but FXS have decided to deliver it as a Game Mode.

I don’t know if there’s anything more after NFP. But FXS have certainly set the game up to enable further expansion - lots room to add mechanics via Game Modes, lots of room in the tech tree and unit lines, lots of ideas and concepts they haven’t tackled yet, options to add new leaders or rework leaders. And I honestly don’t see what Civ 7 would really add to justify itself. It would need to be such a massive change in direction for Civ, that there’s a huge risk people just wouldn’t be interested.

Maybe this is the end. Maybe not. People have said it’s the end after every expansion. But to me, with all the room FXS have given themselves to expand the game, I find it hard to believe they’d stop more content if people are happy to keep paying for it. Solid dependable work streams are kinda what you want commercially.

Well when I meant it didn't use new game mechanics is because it uses the already existing ideas of building improvement over a luxury resource, city projects, and great works.

In a similar way ideologies could be take on the existing agenda system where each government could get an agenda related to it.

 

[nzcamel]

By the way I don't know if someone else commented but we got the dev with the amazing beard back on stream. It seems he wasn't apparently busy working on another project, but the lead designer on the upcoming monopolies and corporations game mode.

I lolled as soon as I saw that! Just like me to predict he's off working on Civ 7 and then Firaxis immediately has him back in a Civ 6 live stream!

 

[theRoyzen]

Well I don't need them all back.

True, but the more the merrier, or at least more to choose from, or not getting Chandragupe every second time i play on random civ

 

[snakeboy]

And yet, we get a Corporations Mode. Content that is basically a new core Mechanic but FXS have decided to deliver it as a Game Mode.

Exactly this. If Corporation mode is considered only a cherry, then I don't see why they can't release more meaningful content like this.
I also agree that it's basically a matter of business: will it make money? Then why not continue content releases for civ 6 as long as there are devs/resources to spare.
Thirdly, if they balance 2/3 of the civs in April, it does not necessarily mean the end. Considering they will adjust/buff most vanilla and R&F civs.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

There's a new Depot associated with Civ VI on Steam. It's called D2C Service Content. There is not a DLC associated with it at this time.

D2C is a common abbreviation for Direct To Consumer. Not sure what this would entail since it's on Steam.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There's a new Depot associated with Civ VI on Steam. It's called D2C Service Content. There is not a DLC associated with it at this time.

D2C is a common abbreviation for Direct To Consumer. Not sure what this would entail since it's on Steam.

I'd like to think it could be some new content.

On the other hand it was mentioned that they might release the two persona packs as a separate DLC, for those that didn't buy the NFP in full. Or could it just be a Civ 6 Complete Edition?

 

[CoconutTank]

I'm hoping that Firaxis gets to revisit Beyond Earth eventually. The "what if" and far futurish setting would be cool, and I think there'd be more creative liberty in the factions, the setting and the progressions.

Also I want to play with hover units again \o/