What are your thoughts on BitCoin?

[aelf]

Placing a floor on the value of the U.S. Dollar is... what, exactly?

The supply of US dollars, which can be purposefully controlled to some non-insignificant degree?

Did you ever study economics? Or only extreme Austrian economics?

The only thing accepted to pay taxes with? Heh

Do you pay your taxes in cigarettes? Or with speeding bullets like any good libertarian martyr?

 

[useless]

Name us one place you could actually live on Bitcoins for a reasonable amount of time? In Swaziland you can survive off it's currency, you most likely could not do that with Bitcoin. That's a massive difference.

 

[Zelig]

this isn't saying anything

Sure, it's saying that Bitcoin is roughly the #3 or #4 currency for anyone with an internet connection.

But you can get by with just having Lilangenis in Swaziland, there isn't any country on earth you can live your everyday life with bitcoins, they are useless pretty much everywhere. Your "aggregate usefulness" doesn't mean anything because you can't buy common everyday goods with them anywhere and you are not at every place on earth at the same time. Your arguments are simply ridiculous.

Yes, I've answered this.

You can get this stuff: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

 

[useless]

Sure, it's saying that Bitcoin is roughly the #3 or #4 currency for anyone with an internet connection.

[Citation Needed]

 

[madviking]

Sure, it's saying that Bitcoin is roughly the #3 or #4 currency for anyone with an internet connection.

this isn't an obvious point. just because a lot of people have access to it doesn't equate to usefulness. counterpoint, the swiss franc isn't a very widely circulated currency but is still one of the most "useful" currencies in the world.

 

[Zelig]

[Citation Needed]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=12983611

this isn't an obvious point. just because a lot of people have access to it doesn't equate to usefulness. counterpoint, the swiss franc isn't a very widely circulated currency but is still one of the most "useful" currencies in the world.

How is it not an obvious point, or one that I've already explained a half-dozen times?

For me the most useful currency list goes, in worst case scenario for bitcoins goes something like CAD>USD>Euro>GBP>Bitcoin> anything else.

Pretty much nobody is going to have more than a handful of currencies that are more useful than Bitcoins.

 

[madviking]

How is it not an obvious point, or one that I've already explained a half-dozen times?

For me the most useful currency list goes, in worst case scenario for bitcoins goes something like CAD>USD>Euro>GBP>Bitcoin> anything else.

Pretty much nobody is going to have more than a handful of currencies that are more useful than Bitcoins.

you can't generalize yourself to everyone else. maybe that's why it's not obvious.

 

[Zelig]

you can't generalize yourself to everyone else. maybe that's why it's not obvious.

I think it's a fair generalization. I don't think Bitcoin would be the #1 currency for anyone. Other than a small minority of world travellers I can't think of very many people for who bitcoin would do much worse than say, the #10 currency.

ie. Someone in Swaziland would have something along the lines of Lilangeni>Rand>USD>Euro>GBP>Bitcoin>anything else.

 

[madviking]

I think it's a fair generalization. I don't think Bitcoin would be the #1 currency for anyone. Other than a small minority of world travellers I can't think of very many people for who bitcoin would do much worse than say, the #10 currency.

ie. Someone in Swaziland would have something along the lines of Lilangeni>Rand>USD>Euro>GBP>Bitcoin>anything else.

"fair" doesn't always mean justified; it's nothing other than a weasel word. regardless of whether it's "fair" or not, the point remains that it's a generalizations, and those are undesirable.

additionally, just because it's the xth currency of preference for people is meaningless. i'm sure that my second place currency of preference is the euro or something. but so what? i don't do any business in euro so it is utterly meaningless that it is my #2 currency. but, importantly, this isn't to say that euros are intrinsically worthless. it's just that i really don't care for the goings on with euros. why should i use bitcoin then?

usd > everything else

 

[Archbob]

Sure, it's saying that Bitcoin is roughly the #3 or #4 currency for anyone with an internet connection.



Yes, I've answered this.

You can get this stuff: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

No, you haven't. You can buy some random stuff online with BitCoin, that does not mean you can get by with Bitcoin(or even close) in any country in the world like you can with lilangies with Swaziland. Therefore for the functions of everyday life, BitCoin is still pretty much useless everywhere.

Most everyone just drives down to the local store and buys food with their currency when they want food. You can't do that anywhere with Bitcoin. your not going to order everyday food from some online place and wait 2-3 days for it to get to you. Same with gas for your car.

 

[Zelig]

"fair" doesn't always mean justified; it's nothing other than a weasel word. regardless of whether it's "fair" or not, the point remains that it's a generalizations, and those are undesirable.

additionally, just because it's the xth currency of preference for people is meaningless. i'm sure that my second place currency of preference is the euro or something. but so what? i don't do any business in euro so it is utterly meaningless that it is my #2 currency. but, importantly, this isn't to say that euros are intrinsically worthless. it's just that i really don't care for the goings on with euros. why should i use bitcoin then?

usd > everything else

No, I don't think the xth currency of preference is necessarily meaningless, I specifically lumped together "everything else" to include all currencies that have no utility for an individual.

Benefits are going to be less obvious for Americans because the USD is so dominant and pervasive, but anyone who does currency conversion would come out ahead if they were able to make any of their purchases in foreign currencies with Bitcoins (rather than a non-cryptocurrency) which they acquire as payment for goods/services. (rather than their primary currency)

And the stuff Mise/dutchfire mentioned about international money transfers.

In your case, don't use bitcoins, my point is that they're no worse than Euros for you. Don't use Euros either, or Yen, etc.

No, you haven't. You can buy some random stuff online with BitCoin, that does not mean you can get by with Bitcoin(or even close) in any country in the world like you can with lilangies with Swaziland. Therefore for the functions of everyday life, BitCoin is still pretty much useless everywhere.

Most everyone just drives down to the local store and buys food with their currency when they want food. You can't do that anywhere with Bitcoin. your not going to order everyday food from some online place and wait 2-3 days for it to get to you. Same with gas for your car.

Straw man.

 

[madviking]

In your case, don't use bitcoins, my point is that they're no worse than Euros for you. Don't use Euros either, or Yen, etc.

yea, and i'm saying that this is most people. this is why your generalization is wrong.

 

[Zelig]

yea, and i'm saying that this is most people. this is why your generalization is wrong.

That's not contrary to my primary point, which is that in that respect Bitcoin is no worse than most currencies.

There's still almost certainly orders of magnitude more people who could get some utility from Bitcoins than from Lilangenis.

 

[madviking]

That's not contrary to my primary point, which is that in that respect Bitcoin is no worse than most currencies.

There's still almost certainly orders of magnitude more people who could get some utility from Bitcoins than from Lilangenis.

most currencies are pretty bad. currency usage isn't an entirely utilitarian proposition either.

 

[Archbob]

Straw man.

Its not a straw man, your just saying that because you can't possibly have a counter point. Bitcoin is pretty useless in day to day life anywhere in the world because you can't buy necessities with it. Its value is solely based on speculation and not as a medium of exchange. The things I pointed out like gas, groceries, paying your bills, etc are the things that currency is most used for. Since Bitcoin really can't function for those things anywhere in the world, it is pretty useless. It isn't the primary or a very useful currency in any country. At least lilangies of whatever is useful in Swaziland.

 

[CKS]

In the past 90 days, thousands of people worldwide have opened a seemingly innocuous link to track a holiday package. Suddenly, all the files on their computer are encrypted.

...

As the ransomware takes over your computer, a countdown clock appears and shows victims how long they have to pay up. That means purchasing a key, or software, to reverse the process. And victims must do that using the online virtual currency known as bitcoins.

My brother's company got hit by this. They then discovered that one of their backup processes had failed, and they'd lost a bunch of data, so they decided to pay the ransom. However, they couldn't get the required number of bitcoins before their deadline. A currency that you can't easily exchange for other currency is of limited value, unless it is the only currency in use where you live.

 

[Zelig]

most currencies are pretty bad.

Then I don't really see where we're in disagreement.

Its not a straw man, your just saying that because you can't possibly have a counter point.

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

In fact, they're the case most of the time with you, since you keep arguing things I don't have counter points for because I've never made the claim.

My brother's company got hit by this. They then discovered that one of their backup processes had failed, and they'd lost a bunch of data, so they decided to pay the ransom. However, they couldn't get the required number of bitcoins before their deadline. A currency that you can't easily exchange for other currency is of limited value, unless it is the only currency in use where you live.

I'm glad they weren't able to pay, paying the ransom is only enabling further such exploits.

 

[Crezth]

you can't generalize yourself to everyone else. maybe that's why it's not obvious.

This is the guy who said "I put my entire life into a suitcase and moved across the country for pennies. Moving is extremely inexpensive." Pretty sure you'll get nowhere attempting to appeal to his sense of perspective.

 

[Zelig]

This is the guy who said "I put my entire life into a suitcase and moved across the country for pennies. Moving is extremely inexpensive." Pretty sure you'll get nowhere attempting to appeal to his sense of perspective.

Nope, not what I said.

 

[Algeroth]

Dunning-Krugerrands!!!!