What Civs' Unique Abilites would you like to see changed?

[HitchSlap666]

How does earning great persons for conquering cities reflect America? Heck, the U.S. had a nice boom of generating GP's during its pre-WW era of isolationism.

Sure, america generates lots of GP but many of the great scientists and thinkers who died "Americans" were either taken from defeated countries or they immigrated here to escape other countries. We partially owe the moon landing and atomic bomb to this.

 

[Securion]

Sure, america generates lots of GP but many of the great scientists and thinkers who died "Americans" were either taken from defeated countries or they immigrated here to escape other countries. We partially owe the moon landing and atomic bomb to this.

I think this can be said about a lot of countries...? With the same logic the Arabs didn't do or invent anything themselves, they just invaded other countries and took their "stuff" as their own?

 

[HitchSlap666]

I think this can be said about a lot of countries...? With the same logic the Arabs didn't do or invent anything themselves, they just invaded other countries and took their "stuff" as their own?

Sure, you could go there but America reaped the benefits unlike anyone else (GP also willingly came to America because of guaranteed freedom, at least for whites, which Europe did not yet have). Either way America should not have this stupid sight UA (couldn't see pearl harbor or 9/11 coming) when they have a rich history of immigration, GP, and cultural expansion.

Moderator Action: Please do not feel the need to reply to the comment on America - don't get tempted to go off-topic.

 

[Securion]

Sure, you could go there but America reaped the benefits unlike anyone else (GP also willingly came to America because of guaranteed freedom, at least for whites, which Europe did not yet have). Either way America should not have this stupid sight UA (couldn't see pearl harbor or 9/11 coming) when they have a rich history of immigration, GP, and cultural expansion.

I agree.
It would be kinda insane if they didn't get at least a cultural bonus. American culture have literally overrun the entire planet.

 

[firstconsul]

america, china and germany are most in need of overhauls -- america and china being warmongers is utterly garbage and just ahistoric, and germany has other aspects that would be so much more appropriate than a second-hand account of these "barbarians" from the obviously biases romans!

 

[GenjiKhan]

One buff to Manifest Destiny I'm thinking is something like:

"Manifest Destiny: All land military units have +1 sight. 50% discount when purchasing tiles. When America creates an International trade route to another civilization and also receives an International trade route from this same civilization,America and their commercial partner gain a +10% boost to Great Merchant generation in all cities."

This bonus is not stackable and it doesn't work for International trade routes with city-states .

 

[steveg700]

A lot of people feel that India needs fixin'. I think they're right, but it should me a more radical fix than simply retooling the UA.

The Mughals were real geniuses at warfare. They had the world's best matchlocks, they had gigantic cannons, they had elephants that were armored up like tanks, they had amazing horseback archers, they had rockets and mines. Really very different from the spiritual, Hindu society most people associate with India and Ghandi. I'd really love to see them parset out and stand alone from each other.

 

[HitchSlap666]

A lot of people feel that India needs fixin'. I think they're right, but it should me a more radical fix than simply retooling the UA.

The Mughals were real geniuses at warfare. They had the world's best matchlocks, they had gigantic cannons, they had elephants that were armored up like tanks, they had amazing horseback archers, they had rockets and mines. Really very different from the spiritual, Hindu society most people associate with India and Ghandi. I'd really love to see them parset out and stand alone from each other.

True, India has one of the richest (and oldest) cultures in history, and yet it seems like only 20th century India is truly reflected. I wouldn't mind one last religious civ which would fit well with India's history. Just do anything to make them playable (especially since going tall will be even harder with revamped culture system)

 

[Ikael]

What civs ought to be changed? Man, which civ do not ought to be changed. I hated that the vast majority of civilizations in Civ V were designed as warmongers first and foremost, with double UU being the norm rather than the exception and most traits focusing into military aspects and the like, even on civs such as the Ottomans which were not exactly warmongers. Epic history fail *sigh* some civs that ought to change from the top of my mind:

Due to overall suckage:
- India: It explains by itself
- America: It's so... bland. And come on, this is a great opportunity to get an ideology-based UA rolling
- Celts: The definition of a one-trick pony, get an early religion and their UA actually disminish trought time. Its UB, while good, comes far too late to make too much of a difference, not to mention that happiness is not exactly a huge advantage seeing how easy is to get in G&K

Due to new mechanics being introduced (trade routes, tourism, expanded religons, etc):
- France (well, already there)
- Dutch: Give them some sea trade routes advantage, period
- Arabia: Land caravan bonus is go!
- Byzantium: Since the religious SP tree is expanding, perhaps so can do it its extremely weak, albeit conceptually interesting UA
- Carthage: They were >the< trading powerhouse of the classical era. It needs to be represented somehow
- Spain: Albeit I actually love its UA, but perhaps a tourism bonus would be in order
- Egypt: Archeology and artifacts are coming. You know you want it to affect Egypt somehow.

Due to historic unaccuracy and warmonger overdose
- Ottomans: Built one of the most stable empires in the middle east ever since Babylon, gets warmongered *sigh*
- Germany: Contributed to mankind with far more than a genocidal dictator, the possibilities for non-war related bonuses are endless: Autobahn UI, Mittelstad UA... to see the Iroquois getting industrial bonuses over freaking Germany really showed the creator's historical knowdegle at full force
- Japan: Moar warmonger civs, MOAR. And with a wholly uninteresting UA to boot. Come on, we already got the Huns, the Mongols, the Shongai, the Zulu, the Aztecs... I think that some kind of uber-resistance against foreign culture / tourism / influence would be quite fitting and original, me thinks

 

[ferretbacon]

What civs ought to be changed? Man, which civ do not ought to be changed. I hated that the vast majority of civilizations in Civ V were designed as warmongers first and foremost, with double UU being the norm rather than the exception and most traits focusing into military aspects and the like, even on civs such as the Ottomans which were not exactly warmongers. Epic history fail *sigh* some civs that ought to change from the top of my mind:

Due to overall suckage:
- India: It explains by itself
- America: It's so... bland. And come on, this is a great opportunity to get an ideology-based UA rolling
- Celts: The definition of a one-trick pony, get an early religion and their UA actually disminish trought time. Its UB, while good, comes far too late to make too much of a difference, not to mention that happiness is not exactly a huge advantage seeing how easy is to get in G&K

Due to new mechanics being introduced (trade routes, tourism, expanded religons, etc):
- France (well, already there)
- Dutch: Give them some sea trade routes advantage, period
- Arabia: Land caravan bonus is go!
- Byzantium: Since the religious SP tree is expanding, perhaps so can do it its extremely weak, albeit conceptually interesting UA
- Carthage: They were >the< trading powerhouse of the classical era. It needs to be represented somehow
- Spain: Albeit I actually love its UA, but perhaps a tourism bonus would be in order
- Egypt: Archeology and artifacts are coming. You know you want it to affect Egypt somehow.

Due to historic unaccuracy and warmonger overdose
- Ottomans: Built one of the most stable empires in the middle east ever since Babylon, gets warmongered *sigh*
- Germany: Contributed to mankind with far more than a genocidal dictator, the possibilities for non-war related bonuses are endless: Autobahn UI, Mittelstad UA... to see the Iroquois getting industrial bonuses over freaking Germany really showed the creator's historical knowdegle at full force
- Japan: Moar warmonger civs, MOAR. And with a wholly uninteresting UA to boot. Come on, we already got the Huns, the Mongols, the Shongai, the Zulu, the Aztecs... I think that some kind of uber-resistance against foreign culture / tourism / influence would be quite fitting and original, me thinks

I think you hit the nail on the head on most of these.

I feel like the original 18 civs, but even some of the DLC, are suffering with the new game mechanics that are being introduced.

For instance, what's up with Portugal out-trading the Dutch? I'd expect the Dutch to trade better than the Portuguese, and the Portuguese to be better at exploration/expansion. The Dutch UA is named after a famed trading company and is as trade focused as the limited trade mechanics of G&Ks could allow.

With the exception of France, who we've seen are getting an overhaul, Firaxis seems generally uninterested in taking a long, hard look at some of the older civilizations who were designed before the implementation of certain game mechanics.

India would be a great religious civilization, but they aren't because they shipped in Vanilla.

The Dutch would be a great trading civilization, but the Portuguese are going to take that because the Dutch came out in G&Ks.

I liked your suggestion for the Japanese, who were notoriously closed off to the outside world for centuries.

Maybe Egypt's Burial Tombs could dismiss the extra gold on plunder and instead do this: at Archaeology, each Burial Tomb provides one artifact to the player who controls the city. This would mean that if you've lost a city with a Burial Tomb inside of it, the controlling civilization gets it instead.

 

[Kurtbob]

With the inclusion of trade routes, caravans, and trade ships, I would like to see both the Dutch and the Arabs with new/updated UAs.

The current Dutch UA isn't amazing (or bad), but I would like to see something a bit more fun. With the info we have currently, I'd guess that the Dutch UA will be altered to increase the base distance a sea trade route can be established (greater range to trade ships?). Alternatively, perhaps the Dutch will have trade ships capable of defending themselves (think East Indiaman vessels).

The Arabs would have land trade routes equal in value to sea trade routes (which if I remember are worth double that of land trade routes), which would just mean adding the word 'land' to its current UA.

+1 gold from each land trade route and oil resources provide double quantity.

Alternatively, they may have faster moving caravans or extended range.

 

[roguesaw]

There are those who claim they did see pearl harbor coming....

Foolish prattle aside, I like the plus 1 sight. Quicker pre-Optics exploration, I find too that I steal an ancient ruins or two from my neighbors because of it. And when the battles start.... Sure it's bland but I think it's undervalued by those who find it boring. You could drop the land purchase half the u.a. and id still play them a decent percent of the time; that said they quite literally bought over half their land.

Not against a change of the u.a. but id be more interested in a American U.I. that generates tourism. They''re pretty big on they''re national and state parks. Build them adj to a city with a world wonder or next to a natural wonder with an increased bonus next to the natural wonder?

 

[Matthew.]

Agreed that America is decent, just boring. +1 sight is one of those bonuses that don't seem great on paper, but is actually really useful. The half-cost purchase is great when settling cities as strategic fortifications than next to luxuries. For example I will often forward settle a city near a nation I am about to conquer, but if the nearest luxury is 3 tiles away, I purchase the tiles.

 

[firstconsul]

America is perhaps the premier cultural, economic, and scientific powerhouse the world has yet seen... and it is a warmonger... america isn't even good at war relatively speaking. America is a peaceful civilization first, and its UA should reflect that. Germany and China are also grossly misrepresented.

 

[SnowKomodo]

America is perhaps the premier cultural, economic, and scientific powerhouse the world has yet seen... and it is a warmonger... america isn't even good at war relatively speaking. America is a peaceful civilization first, and its UA should reflect that. Germany and China are also grossly misrepresented.

Premier cultural, economic and scientific power currently. NOT the world has yet seen. Please, America doesn't even sniff the top 10 historically

 

[roguesaw]

Id argue they're great at war, its the occupation thing they've had trouble with. Also wouldnt call them peaceful first. They may talk a good game but from the Monroe Doctrine to speak softly and carry a big stick to the great wars the cold war the war on terror and everything inbetween, they've been throwing their weight around for a long time.

 

[roguesaw]

You sure they're not top 10 all time economically or scientifically?

 

[firstconsul]

Premier cultural, economic and scientific power currently. NOT the world has yet seen. Please, America doesn't even sniff the top 10 historically

actually, its easily top 10. In fact, no nation has ever had the cultural, economic and scientific edge the United States has amassed.

 

[Njegos]

Why is this game about balancing, why not make some first rank civs with more UAs,UUs and UBs then the others with less bonuses that would be like hard challenges ... i mean, why balancing Ethiopia and England or France...

Just saying,no offence

 

[firstconsul]

I've brainstormed some ideas I think would take some of the major civs in a more realistic and interesting direction.

America -- Arsenal of Democracy -- Golden age when has war declared upon it. Ideology is more influential than normal. -- Tuning is not my strong suit, but this seems to accurately depict what America has done over the course of its preeminence. Reacts strongly to declarations of war (Pearl Harbor, 911), and has had an unparalleled influence on the ideology of the world. America is famous for its idealist stance in what was for so long a realist world.

Germany -- the Humboldtian Model Each academy reduces the cost of Research agreements by 10 percent. May sign research agreements with allied city states. -- I felt this encompasses adequately the scientific influence the German lands have had on the world. The Humboldt model has emerged as the sole university model, and it helps account for the spread of German scientists to places like America and Russia with the city state idea. This ability will allow Germany to be a science power in the late game, like in history.

These were two that I really felt needed to be adjusted, feel free to propose new UU's and tweak!