What does the American Conservative stand for anymore?

Status
Not open for further replies.
That's what's it's going to be because that's the only thing that works. I'm not overly thrilled with it either. Please give me some benefit of the doubt. I didn't read the Dictator's Handbook because I wanted to become part of a corrupt power structure and such on the teet of patronage until either, I die or the state collapses. I wanted to understand why dictatorships, especially the worst kinds in Africa are so rock stable and what can be done about them. The results are fascinating. But first, you can't understand political science until you throw conventional morality out the window. Might doesn't make right, but the strong do what they can and the weak endure what they must unless it kills them and then it is the end.

There are happy endings in this world, but they must be earned and they are always bittersweet. The good news is that the Richard Spencer closet Neo-Nazis are so feared and so hated it's the only thing that has kept white nationalism from going mainstream. White people are afraid of them too. What we're probably gonna get is not a Hitler, but an Attaturk, ethnic deportations instead of genocide, a Treaty of Lausanne, rather than a return to the horrors of the Jim Crow era.

Thing is, these are humans you're dealing with. Fear is the appropriate response. All life, but especially humans are glass cannons, very easy to injure and kill, very destructive in our attacks. This means humans have to both paranoid and aggressive. We as individuals cannot tank,. and given the increasing plethora of weapons of mass destruction, neither can out societies. This cannot abolish war, MAD cannot abolish war, because what makes man, man, not even makes man great is his ambition and ruthless opportunism.

This is not about humanity. This is about the structure of power. We do not live in a moral universe. This universe punishes folly and hubris, not wickedness, at least in and of itself. That's why Stalin prospered in everything he did until the day he died. I mean yeah, he died paralyzed from a stroke, but he was only like that for a few days. Last year my grandma had a stroke and was paralyzed for MONTHS, finally refusing to eat and coming home to die. Josef Stalin, Kim Il Sung, Mao, Tamerlane, nearly every Mamluk Sultan, Ivan the Terrible, they were horrible tyrannical monsters, and they won at life. They died in power, in wealth, breaking and killing any who stood in their path. To say nothing of almost every cruel, utilitarian slave master in all of history, every Simon Legree, every guy who ever worked his slaves to death because there were a thousand more, and this would include Peter the Great, a guy who was trying to save Russia from it's worst impulses and recklessly went through serf lives trying to build a city from a swamp as quickly as possible.

This has to be refuted and changed or the species will be doomed in a much shorter timeline than is necessary. Its also declaring the American ideals are dead according to conservatives.

@Patine can you not turn this into your labels argument. You've already done that whole screed in this very thread I think.
 
Can you list the top items on a conservative agenda? 3? 5? 10?

Well, the "top" items on a conservative agenda, like that of any socio-political ideology, depend on the context and zeitgeist at the time. Different aspects of the ideology will be prioritized at different times, and even by different leaders and candidates, at the same time. The question you ask cannot just be answered flat out that simply.
 
@Patine can you not turn this into your labels argument. You've already done that whole screed in this very thread I think.

Are you, perchance, accusing me of promoting, advocating, or supporting @Konig15's wonky race-based politics, and saying it was already something I promoted in a "screed," somewhere in this thread? That's quite the charge there, and I hope I don't find you slandering me, putting words in my mouth that I've never said, or making defaming personal attacks on no real information, just making it up and declaring it real as platform for such a false attack - like a certain other pack of disingenuous liars were doing to me for a while. I really hope there will no more of that crap...
 
Last edited:
Are you, perchance, accusing me of promoting, advocating, or supporting @Konig15's wonky race-based politics, and saying it was already something I promoted in a "screed," somewhere in this thread? That's quite the charge there, and I hope I don't find you slandering me, putting words in my mouth that I've never said, or making defaming personal attacks on no real information, just making it up and declaring it real as platform for such a false attack - like a certain other pack of disingenuous liars were doing to me for a while. I really hope there will no more of that crap...

no. I’m asking you not to turn this thread into another rant by Patine about conservative and liberal labels being misused in your opinion. He claims he is a conservative of the Burkean model and I accept his position as legitimate. It seems more honest and self aware than most conservatives these days. It’s just advocating for a socio-economic model that I think ends in the destruction of civilization.
 
Well, the "top" items on a conservative agenda, like that of any socio-political ideology, depend on the context and zeitgeist at the time. Different aspects of the ideology will be prioritized at different times, and even by different leaders and candidates, at the same time. The question you ask cannot just be answered flat out that simply.
The zeitgeist and context are given in the title of the thread. "Anymore" implies now and the zeitgeist is current political climate of the US.
 
The zeitgeist and context are given in the title of the thread. "Anymore" implies now and the zeitgeist is current political climate of the US.

Yes. The implication is that conservatives don’t care about family values (imprison children for no crime is fun), religious values (Trump is a personal moral nightmare ask any sane person), deficits (hahahahahahababa)(hahahhHaha), or American hegemony (why are we sending our boys anywhere the rest of the planet should go fork itself).
 
Can you list the top items on a conservative agenda? 3? 5? 10?
1. Defeating the left
2. Defeating the left
3. Restoring a homogeneous society that reflects the cultural and traditional values of its citizens and honors the social contract.

#3 cannot be realized until items 1 and 2 have been acheived
.

Where are those balanced budget folks?
A liberal concerned about a balanced budget lol. You guys fought tooth and nail for free gibs all bank rolled by the white middle class while you brought in 3rd worlders to suppress wages and inflate away what little money was left.

You wish you were still fighting the ball-less "lets balance the budget" ****servative while they simultaneously ignore the complete havock the left is inflicting upon white working class america.

Today conservatives believe only that beating Dems is all that matters and doing anything is OK if it helps them win. Rules don't apply to them if they inhibit beating Dems.
So just like the left has done for the past 72 years.
 
Last edited:
3. Restoring a homogeneous society that reflects the cultural and traditional values of its citizens and honors the social contract.

Which of those citizens values do you have in mind when you start paring down for this homogeneity? Yours? I'd rather live in HItler's Germany, thanks.
 
1. Defeating the left
2. Defeating the left
3. Restoring a homogeneous society that reflects the cultural and traditional values of its citizens and honors the social contract.

#3 cannot be realized until items 1 and 2 have been completed
.


A liberal concerned about a balanced budget lol. You guys fought tooth and nail for free gibs all bank rolled by the white middle class while you brought in 3rd worlders to suppress wages and inflate away what little money was left.

You wish the you were still fighting the ball-less "lets balance the budget" ****servative while they simultaneously ignore the complete havock the left is inflicting upon white worling class america.

So just like the left has done for the past 72 years.
Welcome to OT.

I'm not sure you know anything about my position on government fiscal responsibility, especially from the question I asked above. Balancing the budget has been a part of conservative agendas for many decades and I was just asking how it fit into today's political framework.

What havoc has the left brought down on white working class America? I know they want better healthcare and higher wages or MBI. Please be more specific.

If you look at how the impact of demographic changes in the US have and will continue to affect voting, you will also notice that Republicans have been working systematically for decades to suppress non white voters and and allow corporate money to dominate election advertising. The Republicans have gotten very good at such things. The Dems try, but mostly fail.
 
What havoc has the left brought down on white working class America?
I've just told you.

higher wages or MBI. Please be more specific.
No they don't. Bringing in millions of 3rd world immigrants doesn't increase anyones wages or quality of life. You've decreased the quality of life of the very citizens you pretend to advocate for. The only people who've seen an increase in their quality of life has been 3rd world immigrants who weren't citizens to begin with that come and vote for even more extreme and disenfrachising immigration policy while acruing more benefits for themselves paid for by the working class.

If you look at how the impact of demographic changes in the US have and will continue to affect voting
So demographics are king. Duly noted.

you will also notice that Republicans have been working systematically for decades to suppress non white voters
Lol yeah those ebil dirty conservatives that stood by and did nothing while the demographics changed from +95% white european to %60 in only a few decades. Looks like they really fought you tooth and nail on that one.
allow corporate money to dominate election advertising. The Republicans have gotten very good at such things. The Dems try, but mostly fail.
The american corporate elite are all liberals with the exception of a few. They got fat and pulled the rope up behind themselves.

These leftist corporations outsourced all the industry and brought in cheap 3rd world labor because they didnt want to pay a living wage. Eveyone knows about the Apple slave factories in china boomer.

I know they want better healthcare
You voted the generations after you into poverty and theyre going to vote you into a coffin. The raping and pillaging of your childrens future is over boomer.
 
Last edited:
I've just told you.


No they don't. Bringing in millions of 3rd world immigrants doesn't increase anyones wages or quality of life. You've decreased the quality of life of the very citizens you pretend to advocate for. The only people who've seen an increase in their quality of life has been 3rd world immigrants who weren't citizens to begin with that come and vote for even more extreme and disenfrachising immigration policy while acruing more benefits for themselves paid for by the working class.


So demographics are king. Duly noted.


Lol yeah those ebil dirty conservatives that stood by and did nothing while the demographics changed from +95% white european to %60 in only a few decades. Looks like they really fought you tooth and nail on that one.

The american corporate elite are all liberals with the exception of a few. They got fat and pulled the rope up behind themselves.

These leftist corporations outsourced all the industry and brought in cheap 3rd world labor because they didnt want to pay a living wage. Eveyone knows about the Apple slave factories in china boomer.


Oooo the conservative dropping the boomer card. Hey conservative guy’ welcome to OT. I see you are also in the “filthy mongrels are stealing our social services and good wages” camp?

it is interesting to watch free marketeers turn into protectionists and open bigots instead of attacking the tax cuts that have defunded that social contract.

Oh and the American corporate elite demonstrably fund republicans in disproportionate amounts. Just saying
 
instead of attacking the tax cuts
Why don't you liberals do your own work for once? Not my battle.

Free gibs are worthless when your wages have been suppressed, your taxed into poverty to pay free gibs to the unproductive, and any savings you might of had are inflated away as a result of disenfranchising liberal immigration policy.

You want to be a slave exising off of the scaps paid for by the productivity of your betters. I don't.
 
Why don't you liberals do your own work for once? Not my battle.

Free gibs are worthless when your wages have been suppressed, your taxed into poverty to pay free gibs to the unproductive, and any savings you might of had are inflated away as a result of disenfranchising liberal immigration policy.

oh I do attack those tax cuts to my local representatives on occasion.

anyone who is hurt by wage suppression from immigration isn’t being hurt very badly by taxation.

the unproductive is largely very American (not an immigrant at all), largely older, and largely very white. All the demographics that continue to vote for their increased miseries. I defend them even though their vitriol would have others in complete squalor if they had their way.
 
So you're an ethnostater then, that's the implication of "restoring a homogeneous society".


yes rack that up as two ethnostaters since this thread got necro’d
 
When American conservatives talk about the social contract it’s a bastardised version to “explain” the futility in challenging authority. But it is more a conscious act to trade individual freedom for communal safety.

The social contract according to Rosseau (who first wrote it) is more a realisation that no one gives up their freedom for other individuals but for an idea of an equal community. A sacrifice of individual freedom to community for “pity, mercy, compassion” of self and others. A rational concept the individual creates for himself. A “stronger together” argument. Indeed, very akin to later socialist philosophy and very anti-liberal while greatly enlightened.

Edit: This is a good take
 
BCheek has given us a useful illustration that the new generation of Republicans come up under Trump are mostly overt Nazis.

You want to understand what the American right will be in the next twenty years or so, look up the Turner Diaries. That is what they are.
 
1. Defeating the left
2. Defeating the left
3. Restoring a homogeneous society that reflects the cultural and traditional values of its citizens and honors the social contract.

#3 cannot be realized until items 1 and 2 have been acheived
.


A liberal concerned about a balanced budget lol. You guys fought tooth and nail for free gibs all bank rolled by the white middle class while you brought in 3rd worlders to suppress wages and inflate away what little money was left.

You wish you were still fighting the ball-less "lets balance the budget" ****servative while they simultaneously ignore the complete havock the left is inflicting upon white working class america.


So just like the left has done for the past 72 years.
Quick, name the only president in the last 40 years to balance the budget (hint, not a Republican).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom