What each era covers

[Lebo44]

Do you have a source on this other than "AI said"? It's something I would be very interested in reading about. But AI is prone to make things up in my experience, so I don't consider it a reliable source without other references.

Here you have full interview with SId Meier, from around 2014 I believe:

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/22xovn/sid_meiers_interview_in_foreign_policy_magazine

The link to the original source (Foreign Policy website) was provided below the interview but it doesn't seem to work now (Page 404).

This part is interesting in particular:

SM: The original design of Civ was the rise and fall of civilizations. There would be occasional setbacks, such as the Dark Ages, that you would have to overcome, and the glory of overcoming them would be satisfying. But what we found was that when bad things happen, people would just reload the game. They were not interested in the fall of civilizations. Just the rise of them.

 

[Ornen]

Yes we have the Exploration tech tree (but perhaps not all of it). Its here on the Civ 7 wiki section

Civilization VII – The tech tree - CivFanatics

In Civilization 7, each of the three eras (antiquity, age of exploration, modern age) will have a separate tech tree.Each technology can be resarched multiple times, called "mastery", probably giving better bonuses. You can discuss the tech tree with us here. Currently we have seen only the tech...

www.civfanatics.com

It is surprisingly early oriented with 'gunpowder' of all things coming at the end

I've seen that. I even link to it in the OP...

I asked about the end of the Exploration tree, which is not pictured.

 

[Trengilly]

I've seen that. I even link to it in the OP...

I asked about the end of the Exploration tree, which is not pictured.

oops sorry. I misread what you were asking.

It is odd that we seem to have most of the tree . . it has to be near the end.

 

[j51]

It looks like gunpowder and Urban planning converge on only one more tech. It could be Future tech or something related to Star fortifications.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

It looks like gunpowder and Urban planning converge on only one more tech. It could be Future tech or something related to Star fortifications.

Gunpowder Tech shows three units:
A small arms musket or arquebus
A Bombard
A ship, presumably carrying gunpowder weapons

To put 'real' dates on them:
*First certain use of the matchlock arquebus, with a shoulder stock, was 1472 - 1475 CE in Europe (an illustration in a German manuscript dated to 1475 shows a firearm with a shoulder stock and trigger mechanism, so the first true one-man aimable gunpowder weapon) By the early 1490s they are being combined with pikes and halberds in Landsknecht and Spanish Colonela (Pre-Tercio) formations: "pike and shot"
* First Bombards appear between 1362 and 1372, in use smashing city walls and towers. By 1380 they appear on (Venetian) galleys as naval weapons against other ships (they manage to kill a Genoese Admiral in 1380 CE)
* The first ship type to carry big guns (NOT Bombards) was the Carrack starting about 1500 CE, but the first ship/hull type designed from the start to carry 'big guns' was the Galleon after about 1530 CE.

That means the range for the Gunpowder Tech's effects is from about 1370 to 1530, or about 160 years.

Given that they've said that the 'standard' Age lasts 200 years, but you can deduct 5 years for each Milestone in the Legacies you achieve, and there are 12 Legacy Milestones per Age, then the Age can actually last (as far as we know At This Moment) from 140 to 200 Turns Plus Crisis Period.

Since the Exploration Age lasts At Least 800 - 1000 years no matter how hard we fiddle it, that means a 60 turn variation could be 240 or more years (minimum 4 Years/Turn) - more than enough to account for the variation in 'real' dates for the units available with Gunpowder.

Assuming, from the chart of Exploration Techs, that there is one more Tech and Tech Range at the end of Exploration, I'll make a SWAG and say that the Exploration Age lasts up to 160 - 240 years after 1530, or possibly until around 1770 CE. That would make the Crisis Period start with the American and French Revolutions and Watt's Improved Steam Engine (1765 - 1776 CE) that really started the Powered Industrial Revolution.

Incidentally, the first use of Ring Forts of 'star' configuration for Defense in Depth was in 1748 CE (by Prussia).

There's another argument for a roughly 1770 CE nominal end of Exploration Age: The last, Modern Age also lasts 140 to 200 Turns and has no Crisis Period at the end (yet!) to mess up time calculations. The minimum years/turn ratio Civ has used is 1 year/turn, and that ratio would put the Modern Age starting at 1770 + X years of Crisis Period.

Assuming a minimum of 15 - 20 Turns of Crisis, that might put the Modern Age starting around 1850, and at 200 Turns at 1 Year/Turn ending at 2050. The last 25 years of that would be 'Near Future', but it's not a great stretch: much of that Future is being planned Right Now ('future' Main Battle Tanks are in development planned for production/service in 2027 - 2040, and here in Puget Sound Light Rail mass transit 'Urban/Suburban Infrastructure' projects are planned out to 2050). Given also that either in development or research Right Now are Fusion Power, Nanotech Manufacturing, Genetic Engineering, Artificial Intelligence, Orbital Habitats and Solar System Exploration, there is penty of room for a 'classic Civ End Game of Future Tech.

 

[Trengilly]

Gunpowder Tech shows three units:
A small arms musket or arquebus
A Bombard
A ship, presumably carrying gunpowder weapons

To put 'real' dates on them:
*First certain use of the matchlock arquebus, with a shoulder stock, was 1472 - 1475 CE in Europe (an illustration in a German manuscript dated to 1475 shows a firearm with a shoulder stock and trigger mechanism, so the first true one-man aimable gunpowder weapon) By the early 1490s they are being combined with pikes and halberds in Landsknecht and Spanish Colonela (Pre-Tercio) formations: "pike and shot"
* First Bombards appear between 1362 and 1372, in use smashing city walls and towers. By 1380 they appear on (Venetian) galleys as naval weapons against other ships (they manage to kill a Genoese Admiral in 1380 CE)
* The first ship type to carry big guns (NOT Bombards) was the Carrack starting about 1500 CE, but the first ship/hull type designed from the start to carry 'big guns' was the Galleon after about 1530 CE.

That means the range for the Gunpowder Tech's effects is from about 1370 to 1530, or about 160 years.

Given that they've said that the 'standard' Age lasts 200 years, but you can deduct 5 years for each Milestone in the Legacies you achieve, and there are 12 Legacy Milestones per Age, then the Age can actually last (as far as we know At This Moment) from 140 to 200 Turns Plus Crisis Period.

Since the Exploration Age lasts At Least 800 - 1000 years no matter how hard we fiddle it, that means a 60 turn variation could be 240 or more years (minimum 4 Years/Turn) - more than enough to account for the variation in 'real' dates for the units available with Gunpowder.

Assuming, from the chart of Exploration Techs, that there is one more Tech and Tech Range at the end of Exploration, I'll make a SWAG and say that the Exploration Age lasts up to 160 - 240 years after 1530, or possibly until around 1770 CE. That would make the Crisis Period start with the American and French Revolutions and Watt's Improved Steam Engine (1765 - 1776 CE) that really started the Powered Industrial Revolution.

Incidentally, the first use of Ring Forts of 'star' configuration for Defense in Depth was in 1748 CE (by Prussia).

There's another argument for a roughly 1770 CE nominal end of Exploration Age: The last, Modern Age also lasts 140 to 200 Turns and has no Crisis Period at the end (yet!) to mess up time calculations. The minimum years/turn ratio Civ has used is 1 year/turn, and that ratio would put the Modern Age starting at 1770 + X years of Crisis Period.

Assuming a minimum of 15 - 20 Turns of Crisis, that might put the Modern Age starting around 1850, and at 200 Turns at 1 Year/Turn ending at 2050. The last 25 years of that would be 'Near Future', but it's not a great stretch: much of that Future is being planned Right Now ('future' Main Battle Tanks are in development planned for production/service in 2027 - 2040, and here in Puget Sound Light Rail mass transit 'Urban/Suburban Infrastructure' projects are planned out to 2050). Given also that either in development or research Right Now are Fusion Power, Nanotech Manufacturing, Genetic Engineering, Artificial Intelligence, Orbital Habitats and Solar System Exploration, there is penty of room for a 'classic Civ End Game of Future Tech.

Great post . . . thanks for the information.

The lack of late techs in the Exploration Age tree would be mitigated since after getting to the 'end' you could then go backfill Masteries you had skipped.

I thought that the Crisis turns were included in the 1-200 turns of each Age. Not extra turns that happen after the age finishes. Basically the Crisis always starts on turn 180 . . . but moves earlier as everyone earns Milestone points. I guess we will find out tomorrow.

It makes sense that with yearly turns, the Modern Age would run roughly from 1800-2000

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

• The exact length of an age is determined by a global counter. The score on this counter increases by +1 per turn.
• When the counter reaches the set threshold of 200 (at Standard Speed), the first stage of a Crisis will begin.

The above is from the Overview of Mechanics Thread. This seems to indicate that the Crisis Period is In Addition To the basic 200 'standard' Turns of an Age.

Which means the potential actual length of a full game with no shortening of Ages is:
200 + Crisis + 200 + Crisis + 200 Turns Or 600 Turns plus 2 x Crisis Periods, and as yet we don't know how long the Crisis Periods last - or, more likely, the range of turns they can last.

So far, it appears that by accumulating Legacy Milestones (3 x 4 Legacies) you can potentially shorten the Ages by up to 60 turns each, so the Fastest entire game would be 420 + 2 x Crisis Turns. That is actually encouraging, because it means the game can potentially be over in about the same number of Turns (500) that previous Civ games have been planned for.

We may see tomorrow - at the very least, I'm hoping for an indication of how and how long the Crisis Period works, because I think it is Key to how well the game will be received.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Gunpowder Tech shows three units:
A small arms musket or arquebus
A Bombard
A ship, presumably carrying gunpowder weapons

To put 'real' dates on them:
*First certain use of the matchlock arquebus, with a shoulder stock, was 1472 - 1475 CE in Europe (an illustration in a German manuscript dated to 1475 shows a firearm with a shoulder stock and trigger mechanism, so the first true one-man aimable gunpowder weapon) By the early 1490s they are being combined with pikes and halberds in Landsknecht and Spanish Colonela (Pre-Tercio) formations: "pike and shot"
* First Bombards appear between 1362 and 1372, in use smashing city walls and towers. By 1380 they appear on (Venetian) galleys as naval weapons against other ships (they manage to kill a Genoese Admiral in 1380 CE)
* The first ship type to carry big guns (NOT Bombards) was the Carrack starting about 1500 CE, but the first ship/hull type designed from the start to carry 'big guns' was the Galleon after about 1530 CE.

That means the range for the Gunpowder Tech's effects is from about 1370 to 1530, or about 160 years.

Given that they've said that the 'standard' Age lasts 200 years, but you can deduct 5 years for each Milestone in the Legacies you achieve, and there are 12 Legacy Milestones per Age, then the Age can actually last (as far as we know At This Moment) from 140 to 200 Turns Plus Crisis Period.

Since the Exploration Age lasts At Least 800 - 1000 years no matter how hard we fiddle it, that means a 60 turn variation could be 240 or more years (minimum 4 Years/Turn) - more than enough to account for the variation in 'real' dates for the units available with Gunpowder.

Assuming, from the chart of Exploration Techs, that there is one more Tech and Tech Range at the end of Exploration, I'll make a SWAG and say that the Exploration Age lasts up to 160 - 240 years after 1530, or possibly until around 1770 CE. That would make the Crisis Period start with the American and French Revolutions and Watt's Improved Steam Engine (1765 - 1776 CE) that really started the Powered Industrial Revolution.

Incidentally, the first use of Ring Forts of 'star' configuration for Defense in Depth was in 1748 CE (by Prussia).

There's another argument for a roughly 1770 CE nominal end of Exploration Age: The last, Modern Age also lasts 140 to 200 Turns and has no Crisis Period at the end (yet!) to mess up time calculations. The minimum years/turn ratio Civ has used is 1 year/turn, and that ratio would put the Modern Age starting at 1770 + X years of Crisis Period.

Assuming a minimum of 15 - 20 Turns of Crisis, that might put the Modern Age starting around 1850, and at 200 Turns at 1 Year/Turn ending at 2050. The last 25 years of that would be 'Near Future', but it's not a great stretch: much of that Future is being planned Right Now ('future' Main Battle Tanks are in development planned for production/service in 2027 - 2040, and here in Puget Sound Light Rail mass transit 'Urban/Suburban Infrastructure' projects are planned out to 2050). Given also that either in development or research Right Now are Fusion Power, Nanotech Manufacturing, Genetic Engineering, Artificial Intelligence, Orbital Habitats and Solar System Exploration, there is penty of room for a 'classic Civ End Game of Future Tech.

Then again.
1. did research takes longer time? again Bombard comes BEFORE firearms. it ALMOST Right this time. yet it will be better if Gunpowder is adjusted earlier, and Firearms is one of the two ending tech.
2. And new rules means before new era begins, there will be crisis.
still a time between 1500-1770 is 240 years and there are yet another military revolutions happened. (at least in Europe and Eurosphere); Flintlocks and Bayonets created Fusiliers and elite variants like Grenadiers (1680-1850 Approx), also iron hooped big guns were phased out by 16th Century. cannons with unicorn shapes (especially 'field cannons') also emerged around the same time as newer metal casting techniques enables cannons made of cast metals to be more reliable (new metal alloys can now withstand immense and very violent chamber pressures). This means alot in the battlefield. and even around the same times, these weapons were exported worldwide. Some Asian smaller empires would buy and stock these new weapons up particularly if they're regularly at war with its neighbours even if they don't change their gunpowder tactics much, one such examples were two classical rivals of Mekhong Subcontinent--Kingdom of Ayutthaya, and various Burmes Kingdoms at the western side of Tenaserin Range. though the actual Linear Infantry tactics and drills only became serious business there by mid 19th Century!
3. If Era 3 begins at 1770 or slightly after, the first unit MIGHT be OG Riflemen. How will F'xis deals with it now since this unit combat capabilities grows very fast in each passing years until 1880 (or at max, 1916 before becoming 'Trenchers Infantry' with massive increases in defense (refined use of Machineguns, not just tactics but also numbers, that one platoon now has a full section of HMGs, and other rifle squads (of around ten men) have at about 1-3 'Light Machine Guns' of some kind) but also offenses. (Uses of smaller tactical units, uses of MGs suppressive fire, light artillery attached to, and directly controlled by infantrymen rather than artillerists, some of these light cannons soon earn antitank upgrades whenever possible while still useful as same ol fire support as before).
And at sea. there's also when Galleons became (quickly) diversified-- Brigantines began as light galleons like The Golden Hinde. Ship of the Line also evolved from Race Built Galleons (which itself evolutions of regular galleons), first as enlarged galleon, but later with more straighted up hulls. and no forecastles since it was later proven as unneccessary. Changes were in rigggings with triangular sails now rigged between bowsprit and foremasts. increased speed. the last of galleon evolutions was Frigate.

^ De Zevern Provincien. 1656 Galleon-Ship of The Line (There weren't much different from any galleons yet).

^ The 'Seventy-Four' Ship of the Line, hull shape still quite the same as galleon, the lenght to beam ratio however is not. flatter decks to be easier to build and maintain. different sail plans entirely. with front masts and bowsprits got more sails, the mizzenmast got gaff riggings in place of latin. also with more square sails.

 

[Josephias]

o far, it appears that by accumulating Legacy Milestones (3 x 4 Legacies) you can potentially shorten the Ages by up to 60 turns each, so the Fastest entire game would be 420 + 2 x Crisis

Somewere I read cities (settlements) founded also impact the timer. If so, i would expect it to be a +1 for each city founded (maybe to balance different map sizes this only applies to the civ ighest number of cities, so you’ll get one turn less the first time a civ reaches 2 cities, one turn less the first time any civ reaches 3 cities and so on…) this would not be critical, but it may reduce slightly mote the total turn count (make it betteen 10 and 20 turns less)

Also, I’m not convinced (or I do not remind evidence) of the crisis period starting after the era ends (this is, on “turn” 200). As far as I see it in the legacy screen, the crisis period is part of the era, so maybe it starts in “turn” 170, and lenght is also influenced if any of the modifiers is achieved during the crisis. (I can see as well, nevertheless, you may want a fixed crisis time so the mechanic runs smootly, so maybe yes, crisis time is counted in a different way)

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Somewere I read cities (settlements) founded also impact the timer. If so, i would expect it to be a +1 for each city founded (maybe to balance different map sizes this only applies to the civ ighest number of cities, so you’ll get one turn less the first time a civ reaches 2 cities, one turn less the first time any civ reaches 3 cities and so on…) this would not be critical, but it may reduce slightly mote the total turn count (make it betteen 10 and 20 turns less)

Also, I’m not convinced (or I do not remind evidence) of the crisis period starting after the era ends (this is, on “turn” 200). As far as I see it in the legacy screen, the crisis period is part of the era, so maybe it starts in “turn” 170, and lenght is also influenced if any of the modifiers is achieved during the crisis. (I can see as well, nevertheless, you may want a fixed crisis time so the mechanic runs smootly, so maybe yes, crisis time is counted in a different way)

I agree there is no question that the Crisis Period is part of the preceding Age in continuity and years/turn ratio, because it is only After the Crisis is over that you pick a new Civ and advance to the next Age.

BUT the quote I posted plainly says that Crisis starts only after 200 Points are achieved, and the base achievement is 1 point/Turn. I suspect there are several ways to modify that 200 Turn total, and possibly not just shortening the total Age but lengthening it.

We may find out starting in 4 minutes!

 

[Ornen]

Also, I’m not convinced (or I do not remind evidence) of the crisis period starting after the era ends (this is, on “turn” 200). As far as I see it in the legacy screen, the crisis period is part of the era, so maybe it starts in “turn” 170, and lenght is also influenced if any of the modifiers is achieved during the crisis. (I can see as well, nevertheless, you may want a fixed crisis time so the mechanic runs smootly, so maybe yes, crisis time is counted in a different way)

this is the case, I represented it in the OP because the crisis periods helped clarify the timing of the transitions