What exactly is wrong with Air combat?

FearSunn

Warlord
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
277
People frequently complaining about AI air combat capabilities. Could someone please explain me what exactly is the problem? Because in my games computer: a) builds air units (bombers and fighters), b) uses them offensively and defensevely. In my current game I was slow with air defenses and computer bombed s***t out of me. So what exactly people complaining about?
 

dredzoolo

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Messages
24
People frequently complaining about AI air combat capabilities. Could someone please explain me what exactly is the problem? Because in my games computer: a) builds air units (bombers and fighters), b) uses them offensively and defensevely. In my current game I was slow with air defenses and computer bombed s***t out of me. So what exactly people complaining about?
That the AI never uses air units. I seen the AI build a few air units before, but they just sat in the airodome doing nothing even as I invaded their lands. I have never seen the AI use an air unit to attack or defend.

Are you playing with new spring 2018 patch that just released? Does the AI air units now?
 

FearSunn

Warlord
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
277
I play with my own mods listed below in my signature. I've made just small adjustments towards air combat. Looks like it was enough to brake the ice.
 
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TaylorItaly

Prince
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
313
Location
Germany
Are your mods compatible with the latest patch?
In my current playthrough (before latest patch) ,i am in war with Brazil and all their planes just sit in the bases ,not attacking me , it`s like a massacre,no fun.
 

Tech Osen

Emperor
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
1,927
Please send your resumé to Firaxis.
 

Cymsdale

Prince
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
397
I've never felt the need to build air units myself, so I don't see why the AI should waste resources on something I've never considered that worthwhile.
 

DemonMaster

A.K.A. Fenhorn
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Messages
1,654
Location
Sweden
I have used the autoplay mod. extensively through the patches, to see just AI air activity. Before R&F the AI actually build planes and used them. When the game came out, no AI useed any plane but some patches in (don't remember exactly what patch) the AI all of a sudden started to use planes. They built them late however but they used them. But then around R&F, the AI stopped (again). With the latest patch, I see the AI bomb again and also rebase bombers (that has also been a problem). I did some autoplay games before the latest patch. In one of them. An AI (Rome) actually won a domination victory. I noticed that the AI in that game didn't rebase their bombers. They rebase/redeploy their fighters (to act as interceptors), but they never rebase bombers. In the autoplay with Rome, Rome bombed with its bombers (they had a lot) if the bombers could reach anything but since I used the star-shaped map their aerodromes was near their starting area, far from anyone else. In my "after the spring patch" autoplay I saw the AI bomb and rebase their bombers (again). The AI don't focus on planes however, but when they have them, they use them, and give it time, all the AI build planes (usually someone has won by then though).

Since the AI actually know how to use bombers and to some degree fighters, I would want the following patched or modded in:
* Planes should have a slightly higher priority. They use the them if they have them, they usually build them one area later than usually.
* Fighters should bomb more often. They do bomb with them, but it is rare.
* They should build flak units to protect their units more often. There has been reports that AI actually have built them but I have never seen it.
* And now when they actually rebase planes again, I would love to see an AI carrier (in the eyes of the AI, I guess they are mobile airstrips). I have seen one carrier, but it didn't have any planes on it.

I've never felt the need to build air units myself, so I don't see why the AI should waste resources on something I've never considered that worthwhile.

But if the AI built bombers sooner you will feel the need to build air units yourself. That would be the whole idea.
 

eleven11

Warlord
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
214
Location
USA
I've never felt the need to build air units myself, so I don't see why the AI should waste resources on something I've never considered that worthwhile.

The point is that it's an asymmetric threat and you have to actually change your short term strategy to counter. How would you handle a game if the AI suddenly stacked 4 bombers and 6 jets on your borders and could actually use them effectively? Suddenly, your masses of Cavalry/Tanks and infantry don't seem like much...
 

FearSunn

Warlord
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
277
Thank you all for feedback. Now I've got confirmation that compared with base game my games differ and air units handling by AI is really improved. I am going to upload new stand alone mod shortly.
 

MrRadar

Deity
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
2,082
Thank you all for feedback. Now I've got confirmation that compared with base game my games differ and air units handling by AI is really improved. I am going to upload new stand alone mod shortly.

Thanks a lot for your efforts! Could you also briefly explain, what causes those differences and what changes you made to address them? Now, in this thread you're being a bit too mysterious :)
I, for once, would love to see a lot more action in the skies from the part of AI. Over all this time since the game release I might have built one AA unit just to see how it looks like... and never had a reason to remember it even existed in the game afterwards.
 

FearSunn

Warlord
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
277

Cymsdale

Prince
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
397
The point is that it's an asymmetric threat and you have to actually change your short term strategy to counter. How would you handle a game if the AI suddenly stacked 4 bombers and 6 jets on your borders and could actually use them effectively? Suddenly, your masses of Cavalry/Tanks and infantry don't seem like much...

How so? They paid an opportunity cost in having an ineffective land army so I would just roll over all their cities.
 

Tech Osen

Emperor
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Messages
1,927

DemonMaster

A.K.A. Fenhorn
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Messages
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Location
Sweden
I tested the mod. in an autoplay. I used online speed (I didn't use advanced start because that wouldn't make a very valid test). The AI actually built biplanes when they should build them, before tanks and everything and later on they built fighters and bombers too.

The problem with air that still persist even with this mod. is that the AI rarely bomb with their fighters. They do deploy them and act as air cover and that is good and all but it would be nice if they could bomb sometimes as well. I have seen the AI bomb with fighters so I know that they can do it. Its just rarer than a friendly assassin from the league. The AI use bombers, much more than fighters but not nearly as much as they should. They use them if they have a battleplan. Then they bomb the cities, districts and everything between, but if they don't have a battleplan (like when they are defending) they seem to not want to use them. This mod is a good start I must say.
 

FearSunn

Warlord
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
277
They use them if they have a battleplan. Then they bomb the cities, districts and everything between, but if they don't have a battleplan (like when they are defending) they seem to not want to use them. This mod is a good start I must say.

Thank you for feedback! Your conclusions are close with what i've found also. Just in my last game computer bombed my submarines after they attacked one of coastal ai cities. Therefore it is not only on offence but also on defense when ai used bombers. I play on Deity btw.
 

ZubieMaster

Warlord
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Messages
102
Nice to see a mod addressing the issue, perhaps it will lead to an actual update. I realize they haven't even taken step 1 of fixing air combat, but just want to keep on the back burner that aircraft carriers need attention as well. The UI nightmare to keep a fighter cover on an aircraft carrier is horrible.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
2,959
How so? They paid an opportunity cost in having an ineffective land army so I would just roll over all their cities.

Their bombers and jets would destroy your land army before it could conquer anything.

You can`t see this in Civ 6 (well, maybe with FearSunn`s mod you can), but fire up Civ 5 and see how far you get against the AI when it has an airforce you don`t have fighter protection or AA unit escorts for your army. All those nice 4+ promotions units you`ve been nurturing all game long? Gone in one turn.
 

tab

Chieftain
Joined
May 9, 2018
Messages
31
is this mod compatible with moar units and war expanded (for moar) mod?
 

Loderingo

Warlord
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
292
Location
Southern England
Fundamentally the biggest problem is not the AI but that air power is so expensive. At a minimum you have to hard build an aerodrome, fighter and bomber. Plus you would probably want to build a hangar to get XP. Then you also want to consider getting a military engineer to build a few airstrips. Plus it is very fiddly to move the units around and rebase. Firaxis should look at making air units cheaper to build and giving them a bigger range
 
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