What generation of immigrants can assimilate into a new culture?

[amadeus]

(New thread with clearer poll options.)

I often wonder if first-generation migrants can ever fully assimilate in new countries. I was thinking about the ethnicity thread and thought of a person I knew in high school whose mother had come from Korea (father was U.S. Army in Korea) and she'd regale me with stories about her crazy Korean mother, always permanently connected to her place of birth and neither really embracing English or the customs or manners that accompany assimilation in the United States. The daughter, however, is completely more-or-less assimilated from birth (no doubt in big part to her father being American.)

So, I ask you CFC: how many generations does it take to become assimilated into a new country's culture?

 

[Onionsoilder]

Any generation CAN, but they need to embrace the new countries culture. That doesn't mean they need for forfeit or give up their old ways, but they need to have an open mind and forget their prejudice. For some this can be the original immigrants, though some may never integrate properly. In practice I guess it happens around the second generation most often.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I'd say second-generation immigrants already have a good chance, barring extreme restrictive behaviour by the original immigrants. First-generation immigrants may be able to, but it's not very likely. Especially when culture is hardwired into the brain.

Oh, my terminology is that first-generation is the one that actually lands, and second is the one born.

 

[bob bobato]

(New thread with clearer poll options.)

I often wonder if first-generation migrants can ever fully assimilate in new countries. I was thinking about the ethnicity thread and thought of a person I knew in high school whose mother had come from Korea (father was U.S. Army in Korea) and she'd regale me with stories about her crazy Korean mother, always permanently connected to her place of birth and neither really embracing English or the customs or manners that accompany assimilation in the United States. The daughter, however, is completely more-or-less assimilated from birth (no doubt in big part to her father being American.)

So, I ask you CFC: how many generations does it take to become assimilated into a new country's culture?

What do you mean by 'assimilated'? If, for example, the generation/person in question has essentially been absorbed into the culture and language of the majority, but still speaks the old language and participates in old-country cultural events, would you consider them to be assimilated? Or if a later generation still has considers themselves to be a national of the old country, even if they know very little about it?
And, what if the dominant culture has a very large immigrant population where there really isn't much of a majority to be assimilated into? I'm just thinking of my own situation here.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I think it pretty much depends on how educated the immigrants are. My parents came from yugoslavia and are both working class and they haven't integrated at all. They've been living in germany for over 30 years and they've never properly learned german and don't have any german friends while I -curerntly a student- speak flawless german and serbocroatian with a german accent and don't have any real friends from yugoslavia.

I know some first generation immigrants who are pretty much assimilated but they all either studied in germany or had college degrees and were doctors or engineers before they came here, OTOH germany has third and fourth generation immigrants (mostly turks) who are neither proficient in german not their (grand)parent's language and the only germans they associate with are this country's equivalent of white trash: poor, uneducated and always in trouble with the law since the day they were born.

 

[Shylock]

Depends on the age of the first generation immigrants and whether or not they want to at all.

 

[Babbler]

I don't think immigrants themselves can really assimilate into another country. They probably carry to much of their land of their childhood, as we all do.

The first generation born can really assimilate into the country as they don't really have an old culture to be connected to really, given that the country's majority will allow them to assimilate.

 

[Lillefix]

OTOH germany has third and fourth generation immigrants (mostly turks) who are neither proficient in german not their (grand)parent's language and the only germans they associate with are this country's equivalent of white trash: poor, uneducated and always in trouble with the law since the day they were born.

I remember an Austrian girl, who's a teacher, mentioned that once. Some second or third generation immigrants, can't completely master neither their grandparent's language nor German.

Do you know where in Turkey, the immigrants usually come from? East or west?

 

[PeteAtoms]

By assimilate, I assume you mean "become indistinguishable from" or "blend in."
I think it depends on how similar the two cultures are to begin with, how much variation exists within the culture being assimilated to and how motivated the immigrants are to become assimilated. I don't think it's very common for first generation immigrants to want to dump their old culture, most I think want to hold onto it and even pass it along to the next generation as a pride thing.

I think it would be very hard for an Irish person to assimilate into the Aboriginal culture of Australia for example, but not as hard to assimilate in New York or the east coast of USA.

So I voted "Other" because it depends. But I think it' possible for first generation immigrants in some cases.

 

[Left]

My parents are first generation immigrants and I would described them as "fully integrated".
My grandparents, who immigrated, were pretty indistinguishable from native-born Americans.

...

Also integration in the United States is really hard to define as its had huge cultural diversity from the very start.

 

[warpus]

(New thread with clearer poll options.)

I often wonder if first-generation migrants can ever fully assimilate in new countries. I was thinking about the ethnicity thread and thought of a person I knew in high school whose mother had come from Korea (father was U.S. Army in Korea) and she'd regale me with stories about her crazy Korean mother, always permanently connected to her place of birth and neither really embracing English or the customs or manners that accompany assimilation in the United States. The daughter, however, is completely more-or-less assimilated from birth (no doubt in big part to her father being American.)

So, I ask you CFC: how many generations does it take to become assimilated into a new country's culture?

I'm an immigrant and I assimilated just fine. (except that I refuse to drink root beer)

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I think it depends on how similar the original culture is to the new one.

 

[Lillefix]

I'm an immigrant and I assimilated just fine. (except that I refuse to drink root beer)

Would it have been the same the other way? If you were a canadian moving to Poland, would you have integrated just as easily?

I'm thinking since Canada is a country mostly made up by immigrants, it's easier for newcomers to integrate.

 

[Disgustipated]

(New thread with clearer poll options.)

I often wonder if first-generation migrants can ever fully assimilate in new countries. I was thinking about the ethnicity thread and thought of a person I knew in high school whose mother had come from Korea (father was U.S. Army in Korea) and she'd regale me with stories about her crazy Korean mother, always permanently connected to her place of birth and neither really embracing English or the customs or manners that accompany assimilation in the United States. The daughter, however, is completely more-or-less assimilated from birth (no doubt in big part to her father being American.)

So, I ask you CFC: how many generations does it take to become assimilated into a new country's culture?

depends on how young they are when they come over, how motivated they are, and who teaches them. My gf is fully assimilated (very rarely do I hear an accent from her) even though she wasn't born in this country. It helped she had an american step dad to teach her english.

 

[LightFang]

The first generation for sure I would say. Anecdotal perhaps, but most of us in my town have parents from overseas who immigrated to America and I'm pretty sure we blend in just fine.

I dunno about the original immigrants though.

 

[Tee Kay]

I think it depends on how similar the two cultures are to begin with

This. I am never going to fully assimilate, but someone from Germany would have little problem.

 

[Tani Coyote]

For first generation, I'd say it's mostly hopeless, unless they're fairly young when they immigrate. Ultimately it depends on their willingness to adopt their new nation's customs in addition to their own; they shed their old garments of allegiance and don those of their new nation. Some immigrants do crap on their new nation, unfortunately; some second-generation do as well. America in particular has a problem with some young Hispanics who like to talk crap about America and praise Mexico or whichever place they're from, and yet they still live here.

Second generation is near-universally guaranteed. Unless the parents are overly controlling and culturally arrogant so as to send their kids exclusively to activities/services in their immigrant community, they'll interact with the natives and grow up with their way of life, language, etc.

As has been said, this can be greatly influenced based on culture, though. Language in particular; an American or Canadian will obviously have an easier job assimilating into the other's country, whereas a Mexican might have some difficulty with either if they don't speak English. It goes beyond language and to general customs, however, though language and customs are both intertwined with culture, so chances if a nation has a similar culture, the language becomes more alike the stronger the similarity.

Third-generation immigrants may or may not be in touch with their familial roots.

Fourth and fifth-generation is pretty much guaranteed to be near 100% assimilated, and the only real vestige of the past identity is the ethnic background and surname.

 

[CaptainF]

Assimilation is overrated. I don't want everyone to be like me.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Assimilation is overrated. I don't want everyone to be like me.

But then they'll cause our cities to culture flip!!



Seriously, a little assimilation is good. Not total assimilation, but being able to actually consider ourselves brothers within our borders is essential to a functional state that does not tear itself apart over petty ethnic/religious/etc. differences.

Now one could argue that we should also try to be brothers outside our borders. At this juncture, in a world dominated by plenty of nationalist and regionalist sentiments, along with plenty of more tangible factors, brotherhood within borders is more possible and more fruitful to pursue.

 

[emzie]

My grandparents voted for Reagan. They assimilated just fine. My mom was less than a year old when she moved to the US so I'll consider her second-generation.

I think I've assimilated fine to Canada.