Zardnaar
Deity
That's basically what it means. If housing is cheap, free school, health etc cheap/free university it's a lot easier to get ahead than say USA.
The amount of social mobility or it's potential at least is key.
What is a good wage?
- Thread starter Denkt
- Start date
That's basically what it means. If housing is cheap, free school, health etc cheap/free university it's a lot easier to get ahead than say USA.
The amount of social mobility or it's potential at least is key.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Denkt, for how much money would you sell 4 of your vacation weeks?
Last edited:
The video is terribly naive and selectively biased. Comparing SF with Kansas based on the housing market to make declarations about how tough it is to be a millennial? His use of "averages" to prove characteristically individual situations fails.
Zardnaar
Deity
Lexicus
Deity
A good wage without benefits is like 50 or 60 bucks an hour
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
How much money would you want to work 20 of those days?
Zardnaar
Deity
I wouldn't I would value the time off/lifestyle balance more.
Might give up one or two weeks if it was legal on occasion. Kinda like the two weeks off in summer and three day weekend every other weekend if you time it right. Well two weeks off over Christmas/new years then another week or two off late January.
Often one can exceed the 4 weeks due to day in lieu and time and a half off if you work a public holiday. That can often be an extra week.
Eg minimum wage employee works Easter Friday. They get aporox $32 NZ an hour ($19 usd) and for every hour worked an hours paid holiday.
Only public holiday I really care about is Christmas day. If you have a choice I will generally work any public holiday.
One stupid job one day worked 1.5 hours got paid for 12 in effect. Well I was there for 1.5 hours really only worked 10 minutes.
And some jobs here also pay more than American equivalent even with the difference in exchange rate.
That might change with currency exchange rate (NZD trending down vs USD).
Last edited:
GenMarshall
Highborne Night Elven Ghost Agent
For me a good wage depends on a few factors, cost of living in an area/region and accrued debts.
That is a good wage. $100,000 to 120,000 annually. Who should get that good wage? Everyone or do you have some criteria in mind?
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
If someone offered you a 4 week project on top of work that paid a million dollars you would do it.
You would spend one years four weeks for $100,000 for sure, unless you don’t value your overall time off and only value pulsing out of your time on.
The question is what’s the lower limit? If I said Zardnaar I have this project you are qualified for, I’ll pay you $10,000 for 4 weeks, would you do it? What’s the threshold?
Zardnaar
Deity
Well if you're talking about absurd amounts of money.
I might sell 2-3 weeks the whole lot would depend on how desperate I was.
I would probably consider something like time and a half plus day in lieu or cash equivalent then double it.
That would probably be a ballpark figure relative to what I was earning. In USD $2-$5k a week I suppose would be an approximate amount.
It would have to be more than double time or triple time even. Unless I was desperate for money.
No rent or mortgage so....
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Akka
Moody old mage.
Because that would be temporary.
If you offer me 1 million bucks to not have holidays at all, I might take you up on the offer for long enough to gain enough money to be able to stop working altogether.
If you offer me the same trade but under the condition that it's for my entire life, then no, I won't be interested. Money is pointless if I don't have time to enjoy what it can buy me.
US culture seems to treat money as an end in itself rather than just a mean.
Lexicus
Deity
Who shouldn't?
That wage range would get a bit tight with regards to current capacity, such that it would stop making sense. But also less tight than people might think.
United States produces about $165k in GDP per full-time employee, of which there are about 127 million .... also warning about aggressive rounding coming up.
$21 trillion (total) minus ($110k * 127 million workers) = $21 trillion minus $14 trillion (ish), $7 trillion divided by 80 million not-full-time adults is $87,500.
What I always enjoy how the large numbers stop making sense when discussing economy.
United States produces about $165k in GDP per full-time employee, of which there are about 127 million .... also warning about aggressive rounding coming up.
$21 trillion (total) minus ($110k * 127 million workers) = $21 trillion minus $14 trillion (ish), $7 trillion divided by 80 million not-full-time adults is $87,500.
What I always enjoy how the large numbers stop making sense when discussing economy.
Lots of people. We are a money and wage based economy. If you goal is to end that economy, then wages and skills will have little or know value, but that is not the world we actually live in. Here is a glimpse at the restaurant industry and franchise foods:
2.4-3% profit margin for restaurants
$50,000 average annual profit for restaurant franchises
14,000 US McDs
McDs needs 15-25 employees (all shifts) depending upon the store volume, size and hours. 20 average?
McDs franchise: $2.5-3 million in revenue; with profits between $500,000 and $1 million
Current hourly wage: $15/hr? Wage at $100,000 per year: $50/hr equals a $35/hr increase or $70,000. plus taxes and benefits (20%) +$14,000 equals $84,000 in increased payroll per employee. For 20 employees that is $1.68 million dollars.
Subway has more stores than McDs, but far less revenue per store.
Subway revenue averages $480,000 per store
7 employees per store on average.
Doing the same math as for McDs: the 7 employees would need a payroll increase of 7 x $84,000 or $588,000. They would have to more than double their revenue just to make payroll.
So the fastest way to put the restaurant industry out of business would be your plan for wages. The industry employs around 11 million+ generally low skilled people. Restaurants are notoriously difficult to operate and typically fail. Your "$100,000 for all!" plan just makes it impossible unless you expect folks to pay $30 for a big Mac. As worker friendly as your idea is, it makes no sense if one wants restaurants to exist.
I don't really need to earn more money, maybe sell 4 weeks if that mean I get 8 additional vacation weeks next year.
Agree, every time I compare USA vs like Sweden it seems to end up poorly for USA even if you get more money on paper odds are that work conditions are significantly worse and more stressful and the lack of safety net seems to outweight the potential salary gain and feels way too based on luck, one unlucky event could probably make you completely broke in USA, simply I don't see any way you really are better of by working in USA if you are about in the same income %.
Zardnaar
Deity
Sweden's on of the richest countries in the world now.
Looking at the highest wages it's mostly Petro states and tax Haven microstates
The real countries excluding those is Australia and Norway.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Denkt and Akka, obviously the point is to reduce the obligation to work. But these numbers are so much greater than trading 4 weeks one year to get 8 weeks the next.
Like, you would be insane not to take $100,000. Invested passively, depending on your lifestyle and how long you plan to work, you could retire 5-10 years sooner. At 5 years that’s 250 weeks of vacation gained for literally four weeks vacation. And active investment in conjunction with your skills and a need that could compound that money faster.
Like if we do the math you’re borrowing from your future free time.
So obviously you’d do $1 million, you would be insane not to do $100,000.
Zardnaar needed $8-20k for it to make sense, at 3x his wage depending on measurements.
But even $30k more for 4 weeks, you would be crazy not to. Especially if you could do that a few years and really jumpstart your wealth and ability to stop working sooner. That’s $250 an hour! I would be very surprised if you wouldn’t think that was a good deal.
So what would you need to say, you know what, I’ll work this one?
Like, you would be insane not to take $100,000. Invested passively, depending on your lifestyle and how long you plan to work, you could retire 5-10 years sooner. At 5 years that’s 250 weeks of vacation gained for literally four weeks vacation. And active investment in conjunction with your skills and a need that could compound that money faster.
Like if we do the math you’re borrowing from your future free time.
So obviously you’d do $1 million, you would be insane not to do $100,000.
Zardnaar needed $8-20k for it to make sense, at 3x his wage depending on measurements.
But even $30k more for 4 weeks, you would be crazy not to. Especially if you could do that a few years and really jumpstart your wealth and ability to stop working sooner. That’s $250 an hour! I would be very surprised if you wouldn’t think that was a good deal.
So what would you need to say, you know what, I’ll work this one?
Zardnaar
Deity
It would be about triple minimum to consider it.
We get time and a half and a day in lieu here for working a public holiday. Apart from Christmas generally I don't mind working holidays and will often volunteer to do it if it's an option.
That's 150% of your wages in effect. To give up all my holidays it's gonna cost more than that minimum.
We normally don't do that much on public holidays or traditional two weeks off around Christmas/New years.
We do use that holiday for usually two weeks off around late January. You avoid the crowds and the weather is usually better.
This year we camped in a forest beside a river with a lot of booze. Or I go see my family (what's left of it).
