What is Fascism?

[CartesianFart]

I am always under the spell of intrique of the meaning of the word "Fascism"; and especially the Fascist elements in contemporary American culture. Now, what do I mean by this? What I am saying is that in my personal experiences, I have encoutered individuals time to time stressing that our country (US of A) is superior to other nations of whatever quality or in general. This experiences does not rest on my simple first-hand encounters of others alone, but can also be applied (by how I interpret it) to mass media such as electronic or print (movies,television,newspaper,and magazines).Of course Fascism is not just one thing such as "National Chuavanism" wich alone can be also be defined as "Jingoism." It is something of a political attitude of strong emphasis on the nation as the centre and regulator of all history and life, and on the indusputatable authority of the leader (or an organization such as the military as one of many examples) behind whom the people are expected to form an unbreakable unity. Another definition I like to use is that Fascism denote as not a political theory but a faith, to be set out as a creed rather that of a treatise.

The main elements of Fascism: And my comments on them.

1.The nation is superior than all other nations.
i)It is hard to universalize it because the nation that hold this belief must always be ready to dominate or repel other nations.

2.The myth of the Hero (the leader,party,people)
ii)A good example is the television coverage of President Bush or Mayor Guiliani at the scene of destruction at the aftermath of 911.(Think of "symbolism" as a tool to understanding television manipulatory
coverages)
iii)Now I am not going to the route saying that my country is overrun by elites who make manipulative use of the confused, "non-logical" disires and beliefs of the masses to persue their aims whenever they feel adventorous or taking other nation's possessions. What I will say is that the rule by an elite is inevitable;(the iron law of oligargy: Think of the executive branch of the Federal government) therefore it is always will be the case if you remove them from power or not.Another takes its place.

3The myth of a better future
iiii)It is quite obvious since the treaty of Westphalia in 1648, in an attempt to end religious warfare and to reconize secular governments (at that time hereditary monarchy) the rights to determine religious beliefs on their subjects,that the State had not yet become the object of awe or emotional veneration. But that does not mean that they have failed to create hope of selling a better future toward the subject's (masses) childrens or grandchildrens. This is what I think what attract simple folks enlisting in the military. That a preconcieved notion of cynicism of "other people" of other nations are envious or hateful by some other ideological differences of our ways of life in the world that consist of nation -states that do nothing but struggle for power. Despite their reactionary view of man,by buying into the "hope of a better tommorrow", fascism is regarded as representing youth against senility,the wave of the Future against the decadence of the past generation (in present sense:against the parents of the Baby Boomers or the late 70's and 80's).

4.The enemy: Good VS Evil
iiiii)Now,there are many phenomenons of system of beliefs and movements we find that are combined and magnified by provoking the masses in such a way of mobilizing their inherent militant will; Christian Philanthrophy in the Americas by enlighten conversion or by force of conversion; Manifest Destiny; Fichte's idea of the special national mission of Germany; the Nazi's idea of racial struggle as end in itself; Lenin's vanguard of conspiratorial doctrinaires; Mussolini's fight against Democracy and Marxism; Japanese professors and writers demanding national destiny was to be fullfilled by observing the duty of obeying universal ethics and the return to the ancient tribal gods in order to fight off the enemies encroachment that underming their goals of world conquest; the Argentinians coup in 1943 to combat Yankee Imperialism; Mao's people peasant army against the corrupt captitalist city dwellers; and the list goes on and on.

Etymology and the Philosophy of Mussolini

Fascism-A Italian word fascio (derived from the Latin fasces,a bundle of rods with an ax in it) symbolized both aspect: the power of many united and obeying one will and the authority of the state,organization,creed,or a lone individual who have the supreme source of law and order (however limited or not in such degree is arbitrary).

Fascist-A person who strictly adhere to blind devotion to heirarchy and have unquestionable faith of law and conduct of order.

A quote of Mussolini's philosophy in a nut-shell:war alone brings up to their highest tension all human energies and puts the stamp of nobilities upon the peoples who have the courage to meet it. Fascism carries this antipacifist struggle into the lives of individuals.It is education for combat....War is to the man what maternity is to the woman. I do not believe in perpetual peace; not only do I not believe in it, but I find it depressing and a negation of all the fundamental virtues of men-from an article he wrote in 1932 titled "Doctrina del fascismo"

Summary
I guess that all history is incessant struggles and the struggle itself is welcomed for its own ethical value. So Fascism is not really Fascism at all but a name to deny its truth of how the world always works and the constant reminder that we as a human race have alot of work to do to stop this cycle of no end.

 

[warpus]

Wikipedia has an excellent definition:

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the needs of the state, and seeks to forge a type of national unity, usually based on, but not limited to, ethnic, cultural, or racial attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism, collectivism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, racism and opposition to economic and political liberalism

 

[Babbler]

Facism is what your opponents believe.

 

[CartesianFart]

Wikipedia has an excellent definition:

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the needs of the state, and seeks to forge a type of national unity, usually based on, but not limited to, ethnic, cultural, or racial attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism, collectivism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, racism and opposition to economic and political liberalism

What I am trying to say is that the elements of Fascism in present in all form of governments such as parlimentary democracy, democratic republic, communism and etc.

Facism is what your opponents believe.

Care to elucidate this passage more clearly?

 

[MobBoss]

Italy, 1940. There ya go.

 

[amadeus]

Communism with better uniforms.

 

[C~G]

Communism with better uniforms.

In communism they cannot afford better uniforms under right wing capitalism rule they do.

Fascist-A person who strictly adhere to blind devotion to heirarchy and have unquestionable faith of law and conduct of order.

That sounds like person favoring political system based into military code...

 

[Ecofarm]

Summary
I guess that all history is incessant struggles and the struggle itself is welcomed for its own ethical value. So Fascism is not really Fascism at all

Fascism REALLY IS fascism. Ignore it at your own peril.

but a name to deny its truth of how the world always works and the constant reminder that we as a human race have alot of work to do to stop this cycle of no end.

Umm, What? Are you saying that the world always works in fascist ways and the invented idea of facism itself only humbly serves to help us understand this? Well, someone please shave my head, get me a robe, and bust out the punch, cause I smell cult logic! I want to "stop the cycle of no end" too! Irresistible force meets an immovable object


For those of us who believe that fascism actually exists, and would like a clear definition:

1) 1st (and primarily defining) qualification of fascism: totalitarianism.

2) There are basically 2 kinds of totalitarian state:

Communist: the state owns everything and decides what to do with it.
Fascist: private property, but the state decides what to do with it.

3) Because there are "elements of fascism" in other forms of government does not mean that they are "kinda" like facism or that this "is how the world has always worked". Either it is a totalitarian state or not.

 

[Leonel]

I have the impression it's bullying people to follow your way or else face serious repercussions. Like "We slashed your tires because you didn't vote for our party! Vote for our party or else..."

 

[warpus]

What I am trying to say is that the elements of Fascism in present in all form of governments such as parlimentary democracy, democratic republic, communism and etc.

Well, sure, and there are elements of dictatorshipism in monarchies and elements of theocracy in republics, so what?

 

[Slaughter]

People that people should kill with things that kill people.

 

[scy12]

Repression of Freedom and opposite opinions. Also discrimination of certain individuals for not practical reasons or moral reasons based on today's accepted social morality. Discrimination includes Death Camps , forcing Jews or other group of people to wear distinctive marks , regulating education/Jobs/Taxes/Voting rights and other rights regarding this. Affirmative action could be seen in a way as a Fascist measure .

A Fascist state is a state where those discriminatory measures are dominant in the law of the state.

 

[luiz]

Fascism got blown completely out of it's original meaning. Fascism is the form of government of Mussolini's Italy, and similars. That's it.

 

[Jawz II]

In communism they cannot afford better uniforms under right wing capitalism rule they do.

Fascism is fascism with gay looking uniforms.

 

[Phlegmak]

Communism with better uniforms.

*snort* Ha! Nice one.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I am always under the spell of intrique of the meaning of the word "Fascism"; and especially the Fascist elements in contemporary American culture. Now, what do I mean by this? What I am saying is that in my personal experiences, I have encoutered individuals time to time stressing that our country (US of A) is superior to other nations of whatever quality or in general. This experiences does not rest on my simple first-hand encounters of others alone, but can also be applied (by how I interpret it) to mass media such as electronic or print (movies,television,newspaper,and magazines).Of course Fascism is not just one thing such as "National Chuavanism" wich alone can be also be defined as "Jingoism." It is something of a political attitude of strong emphasis on the nation as the centre and regulator of all history and life, and on the indusputatable authority of the leader (or an organization such as the military as one of many examples) behind whom the people are expected to form an unbreakable unity. Another definition I like to use is that Fascism denote as not a political theory but a faith, to be set out as a creed rather that of a treatise.

The main elements of Fascism: And my comments on them.

1.The nation is superior than all other nations.
i)It is hard to universalize it because the nation that hold this belief must always be ready to dominate or repel other nations.

2.The myth of the Hero (the leader,party,people)
ii)A good example is the television coverage of President Bush or Mayor Guiliani at the scene of destruction at the aftermath of 911.(Think of "symbolism" as a tool to understanding television manipulatory
coverages)
iii)Now I am not going to the route saying that my country is overrun by elites who make manipulative use of the confused, "non-logical" disires and beliefs of the masses to persue their aims whenever they feel adventorous or taking other nation's possessions. What I will say is that the rule by an elite is inevitable;(the iron law of oligargy: Think of the executive branch of the Federal government) therefore it is always will be the case if you remove them from power or not.Another takes its place.

3The myth of a better future
iiii)It is quite obvious since the treaty of Westphalia in 1648, in an attempt to end religious warfare and to reconize secular governments (at that time hereditary monarchy) the rights to determine religious beliefs on their subjects,that the State had not yet become the object of awe or emotional veneration. But that does not mean that they have failed to create hope of selling a better future toward the subject's (masses) childrens or grandchildrens. This is what I think what attract simple folks enlisting in the military. That a preconcieved notion of cynicism of "other people" of other nations are envious or hateful by some other ideological differences of our ways of life in the world that consist of nation -states that do nothing but struggle for power. Despite their reactionary view of man,by buying into the "hope of a better tommorrow", fascism is regarded as representing youth against senility,the wave of the Future against the decadence of the past generation (in present sense:against the parents of the Baby Boomers or the late 70's and 80's).

4.The enemy: Good VS Evil
iiiii)Now,there are many phenomenons of system of beliefs and movements we find that are combined and magnified by provoking the masses in such a way of mobilizing their inherent militant will; Christian Philanthrophy in the Americas by enlighten conversion or by force of conversion; Manifest Destiny; Fichte's idea of the special national mission of Germany; the Nazi's idea of racial struggle as end in itself; Lenin's vanguard of conspiratorial doctrinaires; Mussolini's fight against Democracy and Marxism; Japanese professors and writers demanding national destiny was to be fullfilled by observing the duty of obeying universal ethics and the return to the ancient tribal gods in order to fight off the enemies encroachment that underming their goals of world conquest; the Argentinians coup in 1943 to combat Yankee Imperialism; Mao's people peasant army against the corrupt captitalist city dwellers; and the list goes on and on.

Etymology and the Philosophy of Mussolini

Fascism-A Italian word fascio (derived from the Latin fasces,a bundle of rods with an ax in it) symbolized both aspect: the power of many united and obeying one will and the authority of the state,organization,creed,or a lone individual who have the supreme source of law and order (however limited or not in such degree is arbitrary).

Fascist-A person who strictly adhere to blind devotion to heirarchy and have unquestionable faith of law and conduct of order.

A quote of Mussolini's philosophy in a nut-shell:war alone brings up to their highest tension all human energies and puts the stamp of nobilities upon the peoples who have the courage to meet it. Fascism carries this antipacifist struggle into the lives of individuals.It is education for combat....War is to the man what maternity is to the woman. I do not believe in perpetual peace; not only do I not believe in it, but I find it depressing and a negation of all the fundamental virtues of men-from an article he wrote in 1932 titled "Doctrina del fascismo"

To this I would only add that the individual and their needs mean nothing; only the needs of the state are important.

 

[ParkCungHee]

This is entirely rediculous. Fascism is just as much a political ideology as Socialism and Liberalism, and these attempts at trying to define it as a "faith" without a treatise. Especially considering the number of treatise out there. I suggest picking up Giovani Gentile, Ugo Spirito or Lawrence Dennis. I you want just a scholarly overview of it "Mussolini's Intellectuals" is an excellent overview of the Fascist ideology,from Friedrich List to the Salo Republic. The idea that Fascism is some sort of pathology, and not a system of government is counterfactual and absurd.

Oddly enough I was going to start a thread on this today anyway, but here I will define the Fascist ideology.

Fascism, in the shortest summary is the idea that one should place the Nation above all other things. From this presupposition, the entire doctrine takes shape.

Now, very important is the Fascist definition of the nation. In the fascist lexicon, nation has a specific meaning. It is not a governmental entity, but a shared organic conception. The term for a governmental enity is "state". Fascism does not swear loyalty to governments but to the nation directly, which the state is meant to serve. For the most part, Fascism accepts the 19th century definition of the Nation. A nation is determined by Language, Culture, Shared History, Customs, Self-Identity and to a lesser extent Religious practices.

Spoiler :

It is at this point that I shall adress National Socialism. National Socialism is no more national then it is Socialism. It rejects the 19th century Liberal and 20th Century Fascist conception of the Nation. It instead embraces a new conception of International Racialism. For a National Socialist, one is not loyal to the Nation-State but to the Volk or Race. Genetic markers and bloodline determine membership in the race, not culture, linguistics or self identity. The Nazi movement rejected nationalist distinctions by their conception of the Herenvolk which included Germans, Austrians, Swiss, Flemmings, Walloons, Dutch, Danes, Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, volksdeutsch from Poland, Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, Byellorussia, and Russia, Afrikanners, and all of these relavent nations diasporas in the Americas. They rejected National loyalties and substituted it with Racial ones. Therefor Nazism should not be considered Fascist.

Now, Important in Fascist doctrine is that the Nation is a transtemporal entity. In the Doctrine of Fascism, Mussolini and Gentile wrote "the State...is no mere matter of numbers, the sums of the individuals forming the majority". Instead the nation is something greater. The whole is more than the sum of its parts. Instead it together forms an Organic conception, which is Transtemporal, not tied to a single point in time. Therefore, since Fascism seeks to serve a transtemporal conception, rather then atomistic individuals, it naturally repudiates democracy.

Aditionally, in the Fascist view Democracy as a system accepts and perpetuates class conflict, by ritualizing it and regulating it through elections. Each party represents a social class and winners of disputes are declared through a formalized process, but the inherent class conflicts are never resolved.

This is where Fascist economics come into play. The Fascist system rejects both liberal capitalism and socialism. Both are seen as materialist systems placing class identity over national ones, and attempting to atomize individuals. Instead Fascism tries to bring about class collaboration through Corporatism. Corporatism is an economic system where workers and owners together form self-governing entities for their entire industry, often translated as a Corporation, but the word syndicate better conveys the concept in english. Each industry forms its own syndicate so there would be a mining syndicate and steel working syndicate, an agricultural syndicate etc. These institutions are able to create binding resolutions on their industry, setting prices, wages, production quotas etc. in order to stir economic growth. The purpose is to bring about the greatest benefit for the nation as a whole as well as the owners and workers. Owners are ensured a steady and reliable workforce, while workers recieve higher wages and benefits.

 

[innonimatu]

ParkCungHee, I believe you're crediting Mussolini for a lot of things that already existed before he showed up.
Fascism, in its incarnation as corporatism, claimed all that you mention. But I believe the seeds of those ideas came from the 19th century, more specifically from the period of long depression (1870s-1890s), inspired by the previous romantic concepts of the middle ages.

Corporatism was a reaction against liberalism and industrialization, made possible because the apparent failure of the new order (that had led to WWI), convinced people that other approaches to industrialization and government should be tried. It drew on the idea of the medieval guilds and councils, approaching it from the romantic perspective that those old institutions were somehow better, morally superior to the bleak present... that combination of romantic fascination with old traditions and discontentment had happened before, during the conflicts of republicans against monarchists, liberals against ultramontanists. Republicans and liberals won by the end of the 19th century, but in several european countries their opponents reorganized. Sometimes calling themselves "integralists", they formed a strange groups of nationalists - they all identified with the nation, but were ready enough to collaborate with groups in other nations (not so strange, looking at how nationalist ideology spread in the early 19th century, it was also the product of international collaboration). They also received support from the catholic church.

Fascism in Italy didn't start as an integralist movement. Mussolini just happened to be power-hungry and very good at propaganda. He borrowed what he needed from socialism, integralism, and other political movements, coming up with the economic and social arrangement that would become known as corporatism (but even that wasn't just a product of Mussolini's Italy).

Corporatism was used by fascist regimes as an ideological justification and a practical social organization. But fascism had other, distinct characteristics: to start with it was totalitarian and militaristic, not a requirement for Corporatism.

 

[ParkCungHee]

ParkCungHee, I believe you're crediting Mussolini for a lot of things that already existed before he showed up.
Fascism, in its incarnation as corporatism, claimed all that you mention. But I believe the seeds of those ideas came from the 19th century, more specifically from the period of long depression (1870s-1890s), inspired by the previous romantic concepts of the middle ages.

Corporatism was a reaction against liberalism and industrialization, made possible because the apparent failure of the new order (that had led to WWI), convinced people that other approaches to industrialization and government should be tried. It drew on the idea of the medieval guilds and councils, approaching it from the romantic perspective that those old institutions were somehow better, morally superior to the bleak present... that combination of romantic fascination with old traditions and discontentment had happened before, during the conflicts of republicans against monarchists, liberals against ultramontanists. Republicans and liberals won by the end of the 19th century, but in several european countries their opponents reorganized. Sometimes calling themselves "integralists", they formed a strange groups of nationalists - they all identified with the nation, but were ready enough to collaborate with groups in other nations (not so strange, looking at how nationalist ideology spread in the early 19th century, it was also the product of international collaboration). They also received support from the catholic church.

Fascism in Italy didn't start as an integralist movement. Mussolini just happened to be power-hungry and very good at propaganda. He borrowed what he needed from socialism, integralism, and other political movements, coming up with the economic and social arrangement that would become known as corporatism (but even that wasn't just a product of Mussolini's Italy).

Corporatism was used by fascist regimes as an ideological justification and a practical social organization. But fascism had other, distinct characteristics: to start with it was totalitarian and militaristic, not a requirement for Corporatism.

I never said Fascism = Corporatism, or that Fascist invented it, but it was a critical part of Fascist Ideology.

 

[DNK]

Although I'm not sure about your (OP) definition as actually being that of fascism, I understand the point you're trying to make.

Semantics aside, your overall argument that these aspects of culture exist throughout the Western world seems fairly valid, and the idea that the usage of the term to effectively praise modern society/government as non-"fascist" is an interesting one. I would tend to agree, given that there is no purposeful agent, but instead would blame it more on some psychological complex, the name of which I'm not sure of.

Although I wouldn't call the US fascist, I understand that in relation to a more idealized country/world it is, well, what you stated; and in focusing people on what the US/West is not in negative terms and glorifying it as not such, it ignore what it is in negative terms and allowing progress to therefore be made (the first step is accepting you have a problem, no?).

Tis late, though, maybe I misunderstood?