What is so good about Shakespeare?

[Pangur Bán]

The only hidden meaning in that author is the meaning hidden from high school students who can't be bothered to read past a middle school level that need to struggle with lyrical prose to understand that the plays are all about timeless emotions that they themselves experience. It can be an epiphany for some students that have to be pestered into the effort that are surprised they like something in school. You can replicate this experience by taking Americans that just paid real attention to soccer for the first time this month.

Your use of religious terms like 'timeless emotion' and 'epiphany' highlights my point.

 

[Farm Boy]

Talked with me much? It's easier than typing, lust, anger, jealousy, hate, depression, boredom....

And yes, when you watch a farm kid that sucks on his schoolwork slam out A's in a reading class dealing with something cultural instead of mechanics or sport, epiphany is a legit use of the word. Those happen in art and science and shop and music classes too, which is why it sucks so much when those are cut, but they aren't the topic of this thread.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Farm Boy, wasn't a criticism, just saying it highlights my point. If you think religious things are bad that's not on me.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Indicate something you do enjoy, Pangur--another text, a film, a song lyric--and I'll try to show how enjoying Shakespeare isn't different in kind from enjoying that thing.

By the way, am I authorized to initiate warpus into the mysteries, as I'm doing by suggesting he watch Branaugh's Much Ado? Is that different in kind from recommending any other movie I might enjoy?

 

[Farm Boy]

Farm Boy, wasn't a criticism, just saying it highlights my point. If you think religious things are bad that's not on me.

Erm, ok. All I'm saying is that's pretty standard verbiage for me. I'll happily substitute 'eureka' instead of epiphany if you want. It's the same thing here. I don't even like Shakespeare, I wouldn't call it a religious topic for me. But it is accessible and well written smut that doesn't require a ton of historical context to parse well. It's useful and will remain popular for those reasons alone.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Using eureka instead of epiphany doesn't make any difference.

 

[Farm Boy]

Ok Sunshine.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Taming of the Shrew needs binning, in some ways. A seriously bad work for modern feminism. Especially the end. People have tried very hard to give it a good spin, but I don't think anything can succeed.

Yep, this one is definitely dated, in a bad way. Katherine's final speech is really revolting by modern standards.

Your use of religious terms like 'timeless emotion' and 'epiphany' highlights my point.

How is "timeless emotion" a religious term?

Indicate something you do enjoy, Pangur--another text, a film, a song lyric--and I'll try to show how enjoying Shakespeare isn't different in kind from enjoying that thing.

By the way, am I authorized to initiate warpus into the mysteries, as I'm doing by suggesting he watch Branaugh's Much Ado? Is that different in kind from recommending any other movie I might enjoy?

There's nothing wrong with recommending movies, and Branagh's version of Much Ado is an excellent popcorn movie. The ladies are gorgeous to look at (and so are the guys ), there's lots of comedy, romance, the bad guy is appropriately creepy and nasty, and unlike in the tragedies, everybody gets out alive. There's only one thing that ever confused me about it: Why is one of the female characters named "Hero?" Was that a girl's name at one time?

Using eureka instead of epiphany doesn't make any difference.

I was unaware that Archimedes was a religious figure.

 

[Pangur Bán]

How is "timeless emotion" a religious term?

Well, for example, timeless / eternal / everlasting as concepts are as integral to Christian cosmology as epiphanies. It's one of the many religious 'analogies' used when discussing literature; not surprising, as literary studies in the West originate in biblical criticism.

I was unaware that Archimedes was a religious figure.

Good for you.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Well, for example, timeless / eternal / everlasting as concepts are as integral to Christian cosmology as epiphanies. It's one of the many religious 'analogies' used when discussing literature; not surprising, as literary studies in the West originate in biblical criticism.

If my atheist self doesn't have a problem with the phrase, why do you?

Good for you.

Thank you. Now why does what Archimedes shouted when he jumped out of his bathtub have anything to do with religion?

 

[gay_Aleks]

Perhaps Archimedes was expressing his happiness, that the number of gods in Greek mythology that influence wisdom and intelligence, have blessed his mind with a genius idea?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Perhaps Archimedes was expressing his happiness, that the number of gods in Greek mythology that influence wisdom and intelligence, have blessed his mind with a genius idea?

"Eureka" comes from the Ancient Greek word εὕρηκα heúrēka, meaning "I have found (it)", which is the first person singular perfect indicative active of the verb heuriskō "I find".[1]

No mention of gods.

 

[Borachio]

There's only one thing that ever confused me about it: Why is one of the female characters named "Hero?" Was that a girl's name at one time?

She's named after this bird: Hero_(and_Leander)

I don't think there's any significance in it, though (apart from her having a lover who comes from abroad, maybe). It's just a name. And a female one.

 

[Pangur Bán]

If my atheist self doesn't have a problem with the phrase, why do you?

Think you need to reread my comments. Do that and then let me know where I 'have a problem' with the phrase.

Thank you. Now why does what Archimedes shouted when he jumped out of his bathtub have anything to do with religion?

Do the same thing and let me know where I make the link between Archimedes and religion.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Did you forget your own posts?

Well, for example, timeless / eternal / everlasting as concepts are as integral to Christian cosmology as epiphanies. It's one of the many religious 'analogies' used when discussing literature; not surprising, as literary studies in the West originate in biblical criticism.

You have been going about "mysteries" and other religious concepts, as reasons not to read Shakespeare.

Using eureka instead of epiphany doesn't make any difference.

"Eureka" = "epiphany"

Archimedes will forever be associated with "Eureka!"

Really, it was just a few posts back...

 

[Pangur Bán]

You have been going about "mysteries" and other religious concepts, as reasons not to read Shakespeare.

Nope, not at all. Said nothing about not reading Shakespeare or religion being bad. Like I said to someone else, if you have a problem with religion that's not something you should blame on me.

"Eureka" = "epiphany"
Archimedes will forever be associated with "Eureka!"

Not sure what your point is here.

Did you forget your own posts?

Really, it was just a few posts back...

If you need clarification of anything I've said, you can ask. Will get you a lot further than the wiseguy routine.

 

[Gori the Grey]

My experience has not been that if I ask you a straightforward question, you will give a straight answer. I have done so twice and you have given no response.

You committed to a bad analogy in mystery cults. You know it, but for some reason you've dug in your heels.

 

[Pangur Bán]

You committed to a bad analogy in mystery cults. You know it, but for some reason you've dug in your heels.

I'm very happy with my 'analogy'. But if it's so bad, you should say why rather than just asserting it. I understand several of you don't like it of course, but what I described is how Shakespeare works in Anglosphere culture, and nothing that problematizes it has been said or raised.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Nope, not at all. Said nothing about not reading Shakespeare or religion being bad. Like I said to someone else, if you have a problem with religion that's not something you should blame on me.



Not sure what your point is here.



If you need clarification of anything I've said, you can ask. Will get you a lot further than the wiseguy routine.

At this point I am wondering if there is a problem with English, or if you are being willfully obtuse.

You trotted out the religion and mysticism. I'm atheist and see no problem at all with associating the word "timeless" with Shakespeare.

You equate "eureka" with "epiphany." "Eureka" is associated with an ancient Greek scientist named Archimedes, and "epiphany" is a term commonly associated with religion. Since Archimedes was not Christian, I fail to see why you consider the words to have an equivalent meaning in the context of religion or mysticism.

I have already asked for clarification, and all you have offered are denials that you posted what you posted.

Nobody else seems to have a problem understanding what I mean...

 

[Pangur Bán]

At this point I am wondering if there is a problem with English, or if you are being willfully obtuse.

I have already asked for clarification, and all you have offered are denials that you posted what you posted.

Nobody else seems to have a problem understanding what I mean..

I'm under no obligation to correct your misunderstandings, and I'm happy to let you waste your time when you have this kind of attitude.

You trotted out the religion and mysticism. I'm atheist and see no problem at all with associating the word "timeless" with Shakespeare.

You equate "eureka" with "epiphany." "Eureka" is associated with an ancient Greek scientist named Archimedes, and "epiphany" is a term commonly associated with religion. Since Archimedes was not Christian, I fail to see why you consider the words to have an equivalent meaning in the context of religion or mysticism.

I didn't equate Eureka with Epiphany.

Since Archimedes was not Christian, I fail to see why you consider the words to have an equivalent meaning in the context of religion or mysticism.
.

Surprisingly enough, there are religions and activities that can be described as 'religious' that aren't Christian.