What is the US up to with regard to Iran?

[Berzerker]

nevermind, FF answered that

 

[Tristan_C]

Iam sure that the cracking of the Iran deal had nothing to do with Trump and hes gaslighting, Probably wondering why the West isnt jumping to support Trump now on Iran after starting several trade wars and slapping our allies in the face.
Strutting around crapping over everything while putting the blame on everyone else.

I'm sorry that you're upset about Trump. Best thing to do is what every country's leaders are doing. Pray the Democrats win in 2020 so everything gets "normalized" and the US goes back to being a pushover.

I would appreciate you tell me where the IAEA is incorrect or their inspection lacked sufficient rigor.

Easily. When the reports make their endless reams of statements, like so:

7. Iran has continued to inform the Agency about the inventory of heavy water in Iran and the production of heavy water at the Heavy Water Production Plant (HWPP) and allowed the Agency to monitor the quantities of Iran’s heavy water stocks and the amount of heavy water produced at the HWPP (para. 15). On 11 February 2018, the Agency verified that the plant was in operation and that Iran’s stock of heavy water was 117.9 metric tonnes. Throughout the reporting period, Iran had no more than 130 metric tonnes of heavy water (para.14).​

This is just someone writing this who has, at best, seen the tanks with their 117.9 metric tonnes of heavy water, and at worst is taking these statistics down from ledgers Iranian officials have submitted. "Verified" is not an accurate word to use in this statement. You can't verify that you have seen everything, by seeing one thing. We're talking about a country here, not a ledger. It's completely impossible.

This is why I brought up the Mueller report. You can't verify that you have seen everything there, either. In your mind, it seems that Iran is innocent until proven guilty. In the media's mind, and possibly yours as well, Trump was presumed guilty of collusion and has not yet been verified as innocent. Who knows what he's done that the investigation has not detected, you ask yourselves. When I see a report like this relaying what UN bureaucrats "verified" about Iran, I ask the same question. It is astray from US legal rights and doctrine for its own citizens, but it would be a prudent way to approach Iran. Assume (especially given their love of Russian nuclear reactors) that they are breaching the agreement, and you won't be disappointed.

the fact Iran was known to have a secret nuclear weapons program is exactly the reason the JCPOA was needed.

I think nuclear non-proliferation is pretty much futile. The tech is out there for any country to research in peace and quiet. The only doctrine that works is MAD. So, this does not put me squarely in support of whatever Trump is doing. But it does put me quite against the globalist brainlets in the state department or on the left who believe non-proliferation is possible.

 

[Estebonrober]

Why it should be a problem?
You seem to be confusing nuclear power plants with nuclear weapons.

Russia operate these plants too? I mean it is sort of reckless because their design, but still it is within international law.

 

[Ajidica]

Easily. When the reports make their endless reams of statements, like so:

7. Iran has continued to inform the Agency about the inventory of heavy water in Iran and the production of heavy water at the Heavy Water Production Plant (HWPP) and allowed the Agency to monitor the quantities of Iran’s heavy water stocks and the amount of heavy water produced at the HWPP (para. 15). On 11 February 2018, the Agency verified that the plant was in operation and that Iran’s stock of heavy water was 117.9 metric tonnes. Throughout the reporting period, Iran had no more than 130 metric tonnes of heavy water (para.14).​

This is just someone writing this who has, at best, seen the tanks with their 117.9 metric tonnes of heavy water, and at worst is taking these statistics down from ledgers Iranian officials have submitted. "Verified" is not an accurate word to use in this statement. You can't verify that you have seen everything, by seeing one thing. We're talking about a country here, not a ledger. It's completely impossible.

Repeat after me. Truthiness is not proof.[/quote]
If we are to make a decision as important as unilaterally leaving the JCPOA, I'd like clear and compelling evidence that Iran is disregarding the limits set by the JCPOA - not your thoughts on its truthiness.

This is why I brought up the Mueller report. You can't verify that you have seen everything there, either. In your mind, it seems that Iran is innocent until proven guilty. In the media's mind, and possibly yours as well, Trump was presumed guilty of collusion and has not yet been verified as innocent. Who knows what he's done that the investigation has not detected, you ask yourselves. When I see a report like this relaying what UN bureaucrats "verified" about Iran, I ask the same question. It is astray from US legal rights and doctrine for its own citizens, but it would be a prudent way to approach Iran. Assume (especially given their love of Russian nuclear reactors) that they are breaching the agreement, and you won't be disappointed.

Please take the Mueller report stuff to the Mueller report thread - I'm not going to respond to it here. I'm more than happy to have a discussion about it, but this is not the thread for it. As far as the IAEA reports and JCPOA compliance goes, I'm going with the thoughts of this pinko globalist communist on nuclear disarmament and control - Trust but verify.

Or, as one former Israeli security official said - mistrust but verify. Either works. Verify - not truthiness.

I think nuclear non-proliferation is pretty much futile. The tech is out there for any country to research in peace and quiet. The only doctrine that works is MAD. So, this does not put me squarely in support of whatever Trump is doing. But it does put me quite against the globalist brainlets in the state department or on the left who believe non-proliferation is possible.

Wait, are you supporting Iranian -and any other country- acquisition of nuclear weapons?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Why it should be a problem?
You seem to be confusing nuclear power plants with nuclear weapons.

OK, But just this year a Ukraine nuclear plant went on fire
How soon before Ukraine has to vent radioactive gases into the atmosphere in order to prevent a melt down ? We already witness one over Siberia and last time Ivan denied responsibility before pointing the finger at Ukraine.

As for Poland, you are deluding yourself if you think Poland wont try building nuclear weapons.

Ukraine says radiation levels safe after nuclear plant fire
Ukrainian officials said Tuesday that radiation levels remained safe after a fire broke out at a nuclear power plant, leading to the shutdown. 30 Apr 2019

 

[Tristan_C]

If we are to make a decision as important as unilaterally leaving the JCPOA, I'd like clear and compelling evidence that Iran is disregarding the limits set by the JCPOA - not your thoughts on its truthiness.

I would have liked to have seen a compelling reason to enter it in the first place, or in the very least see the treaty get through congress as the constitution requires. Neither happened. Sorry. You asked me to tell you where I thought the IAEA inspections were not being sufficiently rigorous, so I did. And I don't hold the fundamental impossibility of thorough inspections against the IAEA specifically. I'm just a little bothered by the way they're giving you false hope.

Wait, are you supporting Iranian -and any other country- acquisition of nuclear weapons?

I'm not the one defending a deal that literally flushed the Iranians with cash for weapons development.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I'm not the one defending a deal that literally flushed the Iranians with cash for weapons development.

Because this isnt a zero sum game, with the US acting unilaterally not only on Iran but other matters from trade, to NATO alliance, to global warming
It it any wonder why the US has not been able to get other of the worlds superpowers on board to enact its Iran agenda.
Instead by acting unilaterally the US finds itself isolated on this issue, while Iran turns to Russia for its security.

The strategy that Trump has embarked on is probably equally precarious and short term.
Just like every other Trump gambit.

Russia and Iran Deepen Ties to Challenge Trump and the United States
The U.S. produced regional confusion. Russia filled the power vacuum.”
“The most important thing that Putin said was, ‘I will not betray you,’ ”
“No one should doubt my word,” Trump said in a statement. None of the other major parties—Europe, Russia, or China—support amending the accord.
“After the nuclear deal, in 2015, Putin worried about rapprochement between Iran and the United States,”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...ties-to-challenge-trump-and-the-united-states

 

[r16]

mines can be attached below or above the water line, above is easier and you dont risk sinking the ship

it certainly isn't , especially if the ship is moving . The "whole" line of defence [by ships] against the Somali Pirates is stopping them from climbing up the ship side or whatever and many but many ships survive attempts .

as for Trump the dove ? They say they cyber-attacked SAM batteries . Is it a ploy to show how a great victory they won , to cover the "disgrace" of not bombing Iran ?. Is it a reason for the cancellation of the attack , as it went nowhere ? Except showing Russians the places they were bugged and this might just have saved actual Iranian lives in the coming days . Even , the "nutjob" Pompeo (at least according to the newspaper) says Iran will not allowed to "use" nukes , instead of the proper verb of "have" ... As it's to be hated like so much in CFC but America needs some time to fix its proxies like New Turkey .

 

[red_elk]

Russia operate these plants too?

The Iranian one, yes of course. Poland and Estonia I suppose will get the technology from EU.

I mean it is sort of reckless because their design, but still it is within international law.

I haven't heard about design problems of these reactors. Why you think this is reckless? Hope your conclusions aren't based on TV series.

OK, But just this year a Ukraine nuclear plant went on fire

I'm not sure what Ukraine has to do with power plants in Iran and Estonia, unless we are talking about safety of nuclear plants in general.

Besides, Ukraine says the situation is stable. Radiation level is only 3.6 roentgen.

As for Poland, you are deluding yourself if you think Poland wont try building nuclear weapons.

It's not our concern for several reasons. The main one is that power plant technology won't help them much in doing that.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Radiation level is only 3.6 roentgen.

Not good, but not terrible either.

 

[Snerk]

These are always interesting:

 

[red_elk]

Not good, but not terrible either.

I've been told it's an equivalent of a chest X-ray.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Besides, a nuclear catastrophe is not possible in the Soviet Union.

 

[Berzerker]

Tucker Carlson saves the world

"Tucker Carlson stops war with Iran! Dems upset"

search youtube and Jimmy Dore for that. Apparently when Trump was considering retaliation for the drone shoot down Carlson said it was crazy to attack Iran over the drone and Trump is a Tucker fan.

 

[Kyriakos]

"What do you mean I couldn't be the president of the united states of America?"

 

[r16]

this ain't no silly off topic statement but an example of fixations , now that ı just "survived" the regular one in two weeks ransomware attack kind of thing , with the probable guy choosing not to hear me . See , ı wasn't even ranting about those possible school teachers sitting out of cafes laughing at me . Possibly of Left , as the possible Right does not much laugh at me these days , for the duration you know . Of course it's their own brilliance the women are not concubines in ISIL harems and the men were not yet sdomized by the same ISIL ranks . It never becomes clear that there are warnings given and those who warn do the shepherd crying wolf very good and there will be people hurt , badly hurt . You know , this being Wednesday , the day before Thursday and rump busy that he will oblitarate Iran . ı don't know what's keeping him . And no , ı will not kiss the backside of US State Department , of which people were laughingly expecting me to do , like a month ago by the looks of it

 

[Socrates99]

"What do you mean I couldn't be the president of the united states of America?"

It'd be almost perfect except Dave pays his taxes in the song.

 

[Tristan_C]

Tucker Carlson saves the world

"Tucker Carlson stops war with Iran! Dems upset"

search youtube and Jimmy Dore for that. Apparently when Trump was considering retaliation for the drone shoot down Carlson said it was crazy to attack Iran over the drone and Trump is a Tucker fan.

When your TV gives you better advice than your State Department

 

[Socrates99]

When your TV gives you better advice than your State Department

and from Tucker Carlson of all people! FFS we're in crazy times.

Rumor is he reminded Trump of how crowds at his rallies cheered when he said he was ending intervention and bringing those troops and that money home. He told Trump a new intervention might undermine that.

 

[Ajidica]

When your TV gives you better advice than your State Department

What did you expect after Trump appointed Pompeo, a noted Iran hawk with a long history of playing footsie with Islamophobic bigots?