What makes a Christian a good Christian?

[MobBoss]

Actually it is both good and bad. But he does not say the rich should give to the poor.

Uhm....yeah, such comments about charity are all over the place in the bible and Jesus himself said as much on several occasions.

No , Jesus is a communist he says there must not be any rich because for one being a rich means that he is the one who has two chairs and has not given to his neighbor who has none , one.

Thats not what he said. The issue in regards to wealth and how hard it is to get into heaven because of it has nothing to do with the wealth per se, but its effect upon the persons spirit. What Jesus is saying is that its incredibly hard for a wealthy man to live a devout life because of all the temptations that wealth offers. He further recommends that in order to prevent this from happening that one give their wealth away lest it lead them to sin. But its not a commandment - it is still possible to lead a righteous life as a wealthy person, just incredibly hard.

What of a Christian are you when you intentionally attempt to change the words of Christ ? Even i that i am not one does not attempt that , i only judge them for what they say.

I am not changing the words of Christ. Let me ask you something. Was Christs native language English? No? Then I suggest you get a biblical concordance and do some research yourself prior to making such accusations.

 

[scy12]

Uhm....yeah, such comments about charity are all over the place in the bible and Jesus himself said as much on several occasions.



Thats not what he said. The issue in regards to wealth and how hard it is to get into heaven because of it has nothing to do with the wealth per se, but its effect upon the persons spirit. What Jesus is saying is that its incredibly hard for a wealthy man to live a devout life because of all the temptations that wealth offers. He further recommends that in order to prevent this from happening that one give their wealth away lest it lead them to sin. But its not a commandment - it is still possible to lead a righteous life as a wealthy person, just incredibly hard.



I am not changing the words of Christ. Let me ask you something. Was Christs native language English? No? Then I suggest you get a biblical concordance and do some research yourself prior to making such accusations.

Uhm....yeah, such comments about charity are all over the place in the bible and Jesus himself said as much on several occasions.

MobBoss you are quoting our of context. And it is apparent you are smarter than this and you are playing dumb.

I did not say "But he does not say the rich should give to the poor. "

I said "But he does not say the rich should give to the poor. No , Jesus is a communist he says there must not be any rich because for one being a rich means that he is the one who has two chairs and has not given to his neighbor who has none , one."

Those two sentences come together.

Thats not what he said. The issue in regards to wealth and how hard it is to get into heaven because of it has nothing to do with the wealth per se, but its effect upon the persons spirit. What Jesus is saying is that its incredibly hard for a wealthy man to live a devout life because of all the temptations that wealth offers. He further recommends that in order to prevent this from happening that one give their wealth away lest it lead them to sin. But its not a commandment - it is still possible to lead a righteous life as a wealthy person, just incredibly hard.

He linked directly not sharing as a sin. You are misinterpreting his word for your ideology. It is incredibly hard close to impossible of a rich to live a devout life because for one to be a rich in the first place means he rejected some ideas of a devout life by not sharing with others. He linked the behavior of someone who acquires wealth as not devout.


Which is what Jesus said and stop lying about what he did say. You may judge it as correct as incorrect but lying about it does not make you a good Christian. Or does it ?

I am not changing the words of Christ. Let me ask you something. Was Christs native language English? No? Then I suggest you get a biblical concordance and do some research yourself prior to making such accusations.

You should be aware that being a greek i read the Greek Bible with the ancient text written in the left page and with the Eastern Roman empire type writing written on the right one. It has been a while though. I had read the ancient texts in their original form in school and in personal life and i am not sure you had done so yourself. I can even find it for you and attempt to translate it but there are sites for that.

 

[LucyDuke]

Whats to interpret in this particular scripture? How many interpretations of what Jesus said can there be on this particular scripture?

I think you are simply in denial.

As typical of a great many people that wish to deny what the bible says because it doesnt fit into their lifestyle/opinion/outlook.

If you don't want to have a discussion, don't.

There are obviously Christians that feel that there are ways to be a good Christian, and ways to not be a good Christian. You don't have a monopoly on Christianity.

Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to interpret that differently than you have. The word good has more than one meaning.

Matthew 19:17 where he states: “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Let me interpret this way:

Matthew 19:17 where he states: “Why do you call Me Good? No one is Good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Good may not me what I'm asking about. There is more than one sense to the word good. Perhaps the good Jesus is talking about is some sort of high-divine omnibenevolence. The good I'm talking about is "doing it right".

If you want to tell me that I'm wrong and you're right, that's fine. But you don't need to try to sabotage the thread. We know what you think.

 

[bhsup]

There are obviously Christians that feel that there are ways to be a good Christian, and ways to not be a good Christian. You don't have a monopoly on Christianity

This is why I've avoided this thread so far. I'm not really keen on saying what makes someone a good Christian or not. Everyone's relationship with God and his son is a very personal thing. If I am to say "this is what makes a Christian a good Christian", that's pretty much the same as saying "everything else makes someone a bad Christian" and that it just downright scary. it's that kind of thought that can lead down the road to things like my State suggesting we shoot Mormons on sight or the Catholic Church burning heretics.

Silly answer! Circumcision makes one a good Christian.

 

[Zarn]

Silly answer! Circumcision makes one a good Christian.

I was so going to say that!

I guess great minds think alike on this one.

Jesus was circumcised, and we have to be like Jesus.

 

[warpus]

I was so going to say that!

I guess great minds think alike on this one.

Jesus was circumcised, and we have to be like Jesus.

He was also crucified..

You go first!

 

[LucyDuke]

This is why I've avoided this thread so far. I'm not really keen on saying what makes someone a good Christian or not. Everyone's relationship with God and his son is a very personal thing. If I am to say "this is what makes a Christian a good Christian", that's pretty much the same as saying "everything else makes someone a bad Christian" and that it just downright scary. it's that kind of thought that can lead down the road to things like my State suggesting we shoot Mormons on sight or the Catholic Church burning heretics.

You needn't be right, though! I just want to know what some Christians think makes a good Christian.

Of course there will be disagreements, and implications that poster X thinks poster Y is a bad Christian because he doesn't do what poster X thinks is required to be a good Christian. But we could be grownups and accept that we disagree about stuff and have a good discussion anyway.

Oh, wait. This is OT. My bad. Carry on, flame warriors.

 

[El_Machinae]

VRWCAgent is being careful to "judge not, lest ye be judged".

Anyway, evidence of being a mediocre Christian is to be able to perform miracles. If you can't, well then, "oh ye of little faith".

 

[El_Machinae]

Thats not what he said. The issue in regards to wealth and how hard it is to get into heaven because of it has nothing to do with the wealth per se, but its effect upon the persons spirit. What Jesus is saying is that its incredibly hard for a wealthy man to live a devout life because of all the temptations that wealth offers. He further recommends that in order to prevent this from happening that one give their wealth away lest it lead them to sin. But its not a commandment - it is still possible to lead a righteous life as a wealthy person, just incredibly hard.

I'm not saying you're right, and I'm not saying you're wrong. But you're really reading a lot into that text.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Being a good Christian, simply, is loving God above everything and loving everybody. Added, however, is also responsibilities like helping the poor, etc.

 

[JollyRoger]

The issue in regards to wealth and how hard it is to get into heaven because of it has nothing to do with the wealth per se, but its effect upon the persons spirit. What Jesus is saying is that its incredibly hard for a wealthy man to live a devout life because of all the temptations that wealth offers. He further recommends that in order to prevent this from happening that one give their wealth away lest it lead them to sin. But its not a commandment - it is still possible to lead a righteous life as a wealthy person, just incredibly hard.

Jesus' statements look pretty per se to me. Ever see a camel go through the eye of a needle?

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Exactement! Rich people have a duty to give money to the poor!

 

[Zarn]

Exactement! Rich people have a duty to give money to the poor!

Do middle class people and some upper class people have an obligation to give the money of other middle class people and other upper class people to the poor?

 

[JollyRoger]

Do middle class people and some upper class people have an obligation to give the money of other middle class people and other upper class people to the poor?

Do they have an obligation to restrict others from having an abortion or marrying within the same gender?

 

[Huayna Capac357]

No. Jesus wanted to help the poor, while he said nothing about either homosexuality OR abortion .

 

[Zarn]

Do they have an obligation to restrict others from having an abortion or marrying within the same gender?

Murder- yes

Marrying- no (and you should know better than to ask me that)

Help poor- Yes

Stealing- Yes

 

[MobBoss]

MobBoss you are quoting our of context.

Nope.

I did not say "But he does not say the rich should give to the poor. "

Uhm...yes you did. Right here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6968398&postcount=120

Here let me quote you:

Actually it is both good and bad. But he does not say the rich should give to the poor.

Emphasis added so you can see precisely where you did say it.

I said "But he does not say the rich should give to the poor. No , Jesus is a communist he says there must not be any rich because for one being a rich means that he is the one who has two chairs and has not given to his neighbor who has none , one."

Those two sentences come together.

But you misquote him yourself. Jesus never said 'there must not be any rich'.....he said being rich makes it near impossible to lead a righteous life and enter heaven.

He linked directly not sharing as a sin. You are misinterpreting his word for your ideology.

Nope. I do believe I stated that charitable giving was the order of the day from Jesus or did you not catch that? I totally agree being selfish is a sin.

It is incredibly hard close to impossible of a rich to live a devout life because for one to be a rich in the first place means he rejected some ideas of a devout life by not sharing with others. He linked the behavior of someone who acquires wealth as not devout.

Was King David wealthy? Absolutely. Was he devout? Absolutely. Again, you err in your interpretation. A wealthy man can indeed be devout, but the temptation that great wealth brings with it makes it a very difficult task indeed.

Which is what Jesus said and stop lying about what he did say. You may judge it as correct as incorrect but lying about it does not make you a good Christian. Or does it ?

I am not lying about it. I just possess a better understanding of it than you do. /shrug.

 

[Bill3000]

Do middle class people and some upper class people have an obligation to give the money of other middle class people and other upper class people to the poor?

No, just an obligation to give away all their wealth to the poor to live an ascetic life.

 

[CheScott]

Then feel free to interpret it for me. Are you really going to give me a different intrepretation? By all means explain to me a different interpretation when Jesus says "there is no one good, not even me. God alone is good."

Knock yourself out.

No problem. Jesus meant that there is 'no individual thing that in itself is good' when he said there is 'no one good'. Not that there are 'no good people'. Do I believe it? Heck, I don't even care. But there is a different interpertation than the one you presented.

You see, there are a great many passages in scripture that can indeed by interpreted in a variety of ways. But not all of them are that way. Some are quite straight forward and singular in their meaning. This particular one is one of them.

You, however, are free to disagree with that wisdom all you want.

So you offer no interpretation, just that the entire bible is false due to mans tampering. /shrug.


Do you have any proof to back up your allegation?

Nothing so total and condemning. The entire bible is subject to interpretation and anyone is would be entirely valid to dismiss passages to entire books or even the entire thing itself. That is not to say that it is 'true' or 'false', but only to say that a person can easily be totally valid in saying, 'I don't think Jesus said that.'

Proof? No, nothing is provable in my view. However, my reasoning is that the book in this passage was written, translated, voted on and approved by people that, in your own interpretation, are in capable of being good. If people cannot be good. I think the logical paradox this presents is fairly clear.

But of course. As long as you understand that not all opinions are equal.

That is all well and good, however what I was taking issue with was that you very directly accused her of being in denial, simply for wanting to hear other people's point of view and making no particular indication of what weight was being put on them.

Certainly not all opinions are equal, but wanting to hear them is hardly tantamount to living in denial of your Christ.

 

[MobBoss]

If you don't want to have a discussion, don't.

If you dont like my comments dont reply. /shrug.

There are obviously Christians that feel that there are ways to be a good Christian, and ways to not be a good Christian. You don't have a monopoly on Christianity.

Your right I dont. But I think Jesus does. Its his words I give you here, not mine. Again, you want to discount what his says about it thats your decision.

Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to interpret that differently than you have. The word good has more than one meaning.

Again, how would you interpret it? I have been asking this of several people and yet they all neglect to offer a valid, if alternate, interpretation.

Are you alleging Jesus was referring to their sense of dress style? Their ability at golf? Speed in the 100 yard dash?

Or was he referring to the fact that the flesh constantly is in war with the spirit, thus only God the father can be good?

If you want to tell me that I'm wrong and you're right, that's fine. But you don't need to try to sabotage the thread. We know what you think.

Not sabotaging the thread. Its called having a discussion. You know what I think because I let you know what I think. Thats how conversation works.