What Native American Civs would you like to see the most in Civ VII?

[Queen Theophania]

Probably the 58th time a thread like this has been created. I'd like to see what Native American groups people here would like to see represented in Civ VII, specially considering that Civ VI did a pretty mediocre job at it (at least in my opinion). I've included a lot of options so hopefully they cover all bases.

You can vote up to 3 times (or at least you should be able to ._.).

(also this is my first thread here I hope I didn't mess anything up).

EDIT: Also didn't include the Aztecs, Mayans or Incas since it's basically guaranteed they'll get in the game eventually.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I voted for Haudenosaunee/Iroquois, Navajo, and Muisca.

That's no including the Aztec, Inca and Maya that aren't on the poll, but are probably a given anyway to return.

 

[Queen Theophania]

I voted for Haudenosaunee/Iroquois, Navajo, and Muisca.

That's no including the Aztec, Inca and Maya that aren't on the poll, but are probably a given anyway to return.

Yeah that's exactly why I didn't include them, thanks for unwittingly reminding me to specify that.

 

[Zaarin]

Tlingit, Choctaw, and Powhatan for me. Choctaw and Powhatan both for their charismatic leaders (Pushmataha and Powhatan/Wahunsenacawh respectively), the Tlingit for their rich and fascinating culture. I'd be pleased to see the Haudenosaunee, as well, especially if led by Joseph Brant--or Molly Brant.

I consider Mesoamerica and South America separate regions, but I'd also love to see the Mixtec led by Eight Deer Jaguar Claw and the Muisca.

specially considering that Civ VI did a pretty mediocre job at it (at least in my opinion).

Yes, getting only a single indigenous North American civ in Civ6 after getting two in Civ5 was very disappointing.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I consider Mesoamerica and South America separate regions, but I'd also love to see the Mixtec led by Eight Deer Jaguar Claw and the Muisca.

Yeah I would have voted for the Tlingit if it was only limited to North America and the Muisca weren't on the poll.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Tlingit, Comanche, and Navajo, here.

 

[Evie]

I voted Haudenosaunee because they should be a series staple, Haida to be a contrarian to all the Tlingit love, and Powhatan because Zaarin made a compelling csse for them in past threads.

All dependent on how their culture would view being included, of course.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I voted Haudenosaunee because they should be a series staple, Haida to be a contrarian to all the Tlingit love, and Powhatan because Zaarin made a compelling csse for them in past threads.

All dependent on how their culture would view being included, of course.

I wouldn't mind Haida either over the Tlingit, as long as we eventually get a PNW culture. Powhatan seems a little too similar to the Iroquois, who I also think should be a series staple, but I wouldn't mind if we got them instead.

 

[Phrozen]

For the northwest the Coastal Salish would probably be the easiest as far as the PNW cultures. Chief Si'ahl being pretty recognizable.

 

[Zaarin]

Haida to be a contrarian to all the Tlingit love

I'd welcome the Haida, but it's my assumption, based on the files found in R&F, that the Haida already declined to participate, for whatever reason (which is interesting because there are Haida-language films and manga; it seems like they are very interested in media outreach). I previously took the Cree's symbol and colors as further evidence of the Haida's last-minute removal, but it turns out they were based on a modern Cree mask inspired by the PNW style. (I'm still amazed at how that kind of shoddy research slipped through. Maybe they could have spoken to the Cree about an appropriate symbol since they worked with the Cree to find a VA and compose the music...)

Powhatan seems a little too similar to the Iroquois

I don't think they'd be similar at all. The Iroquois should be about war, all day, everyday (with a side of trade), whereas I'd see the Powhatan being more about diplomatic hegemony. Likewise, the Powhatan should have a Tomahawk UU, whereas the Iroquois should have a Musketman replacement. In terms of infrastructure, the Iroquois obviously get the Longhouse; I really like @Duke William of Normandy 's suggestion of a Quioccosin shrine.

For the northwest the Coastal Salish would probably be the easiest as far as the PNW cultures. Chief Si'ahl being pretty recognizable.

Finding leaders for Southern PNW tribes is certainly easier, but their culture was considerably less sophisticated than the Northern PNW tribes: Tlingit, Haida, and Tsimshian. Of all of them, the Tlingit were probably the pinnacle of PNW culture, which is why I consistently suggest them, but I think the Haida and Tsimshian would be fine candidates as well. (I also happen to find the Tlingit language extraordinarily euphonic--but so is Haida.) Of the Southern PNW tribes, I think the best candidate is not the Salish but the Nuu-chah-nulth or their close cousins the Makah, who were the only PNW tribes to operate as whalers.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

For the northwest the Coastal Salish would probably be the easiest as far as the PNW cultures. Chief Si'ahl being pretty recognizable.

Did the Coastal Salish use totem/crest poles? Having a totem/crest pole unique infrastructure is my only requirement and why I would want a PNW culture to begin with.

don't think they'd be similar at all. The Iroquois should be about war, all day, everyday (with a side of trade), whereas I'd see the Powhatan being more about diplomatic hegemony. Likewise, the Powhatan should have a Tomahawk UU, whereas the Iroquois should have a Musketman replacement. In terms of infrastructure, the Iroquois obviously get the Longhouse; I really like @Duke William of Normandy 's suggestion of a Quioccosin shrine.

Well I meant similar as in another native confederacy on the east coast that also relied heavily on agriculture. I agree that the leaders as well as certain abilities, including the UUs and unique infrastructure, would be different.

 

[Zaarin]

Did the Coastal Salish use totem/crest poles? Having a totem/crest pole unique infrastructure is my only requirement and why I would want a PNW culture to begin with.

Yes, but not to the extent that the Northern and Middle PNW tribes did as heraldry was less developed in the Southern PNW tribes. Since they rarely stood alone, I'd personally like to see the crest pole incorporated into a Clan House unique district (or improvement). The Tlingit name for such a structure is ḵwaan, but I don't know the Haida and Tsimshian names off the top of my head.

Well I meant similar as in another native confederacy on the east coast that also relied heavily on agriculture. I agree that the leaders as well as certain abilities, including the UUs and unique infrastructure, would be different.

Yes, that's fair, though culturally they had fairly little in common so I think their flavor as well as actual gameplay would be very different.

 

[Phrozen]

The problem with the Powhatan is that while we have some Chesapeake Bay Algonquin words when it comes to place names (For example Rappahannock and Tappahannock) we really don't have grammar structure or many words. The descendants have long lost the language as reports back in the 1600s indicate that only English was spoken in their reservations.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Since they rarely stood alone, I'd personally like to see the crest pole incorporated into a Clan House unique district (or improvement). The Tlingit name for such a structure is ḵwaan, but I don't know the Haida and Tsimshian names off the top of my head.

Yeah a Clan House including a crest pole, whether an improvement or district, would be ideal.

Yes, that's fair, though culturally they had fairly little in common so I think their flavor as well as actual gameplay would be very different.

Sure. I just think that if we were to get only two I'd at least want one in the west as well which means ideally either the Iroquois/Shawnee/Powhatan, in the east, and then Navajo/Tlinglit/Haida for the west in that order. I'd be fine with leaving the Great Plains alone. But if we must get one I think the Comanche deserve a turn. I also believe the west, in my mind is big enough and more culturally diverse, that we could get a SW tribe and then either a PNW tribe.

 

[Queen Theophania]

Finding leaders for Southern PNW tribes is certainly easier, but their culture was considerably less sophisticated than the Northern PNW tribes.

What tribe do you think we'd be more likely to get if we got one? I'd wager the Coast Salish with Chief Si'ahl is quite a significant contender as Civ V and VI specially have really focused on recognizable leaders with distinctive personalities, which as you said many northern PNW groups don't really have many of.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

What tribe do you think we'd be more likely to get if we got one? I'd wager the Coast Salish with Chief Si'ahl is quite a significant contender as Civ V and VI specially have really focused on recognizable leaders with distinctive personalities, which as you said many northern PNW groups don't really have many of.

The Tlingit do have Ḵʼalyaan (Katlian). I think seeing him with his raven hat in game would be pretty cool. At least this screams personality to me.

 

[Zaarin]

The problem with the Powhatan is that while we have some Chesapeake Bay Algonquin words when it comes to place names (For example Rappahannock and Tappahannock) we really don't have grammar structure or many words. The descendants have long lost the language as reports back in the 1600s indicate that only English was spoken in their reservations.

Firaxis has shown themselves amenable to using reconstructed languages, and failing that then Massachusett is well attested and close enough--the Powhatan in The New World, for instance, was reconstructed based on Massachusett.

Sure. I just think that if we were to get only two I'd at least want one in the west as well which means ideally either the Iroquois/Shawnee/Powhatan, in the east, and then Navajo/Tlinglit/Haida for the west in that order. I'd be fine with leaving the Great Plains alone. But if we must get one I think the Comanche deserve a turn. I also believe the west, in my mind is big enough and more culturally diverse, that we could get a SW tribe and then either a PNW tribe.

The Comanche are from the Southwest, not the Plains, despite their more Plains-like lifestyle. I'd prefer the Nez Perce myself (also not from the Plains but from the Plateau, but they, too, adopted a Plains-style lifestyle).

What tribe do you think we'd be more likely to get if we got one? I'd wager the Coast Salish with Chief Si'ahl is quite a significant contender as Civ V and VI specially have really focused on recognizable leaders with distinctive personalities, which as you said many northern PNW groups don't really have many of.

Despite that byline, we've had plenty of leaders who don't fit it. Precious little is known about Amanitore, for instance, and I'd hardly call Victoria a "big personality"--I can think of half a dozen English leaders with bigger personalities off the top of my head, including Civ regular Elizabeth I (as well as her father and sister, any of the Stuarts, Henry V, Edward the Confessor, Edward III Longshanks, King John, frankly any of the Richards...). On top of that, much of Si'ahl's "big personality" is just romantic folklore made up by white people, giving him the same objections I have to Tecumseh. I'd personally be disappointed if we got the Coast Salish over...pretty much any other PNW group. For a Tlingit leader I'd recommend Sheiyksh I (or Chief Shakes) or Ḵʼalyaan as @Alexander's Hetaroi suggested. Probably the best options for the Haida are either Gəniyá, Xhuuyaa, or Cumshewa. Having read and thoroughly enjoyed A Story as Sharp as a Knife, there's a part of me that would love to see Skaay lead the Haida, but he wasn't in any kind of leadership position.

The only thing the Coast Salish have going for them is a highly romanticized leader. This wouldn't be the first time Civ chose a civilization because it was interesting, not for the strength of its leader. This becomes especially true if we get an Eastern tribe with a charismatic leader like Pushmataha, Powhatan, or Joseph Brant. Oh, and many Tlingit and Haida men wore beards, unusually for Native Americans; this alone would make them visually interesting compared to other Native Americans--on top of things like tattoos, abalone and Dentalia ornaments, Chilkat blankets, transformation masks, and spruce root or carved cedar hats.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I would say the Comanche originated in the Southwest, but upon gaining horses, they expanded throughout the southern Great Plains.

 

[Zaarin]

I would say the Comanche originated in the Southwest, but upon gaining horses, they expanded throughout the southern Great Plains.

Their core territory, though, was always the Southwest: western Texas and eastern New Mexico. But they did adopt a Plains lifestyle and would be a perfectly viable candidate for a Plains-type civ, though TBH I'd prefer either the Nez Perce or the Sioux myself if we're going that route (though the establishment of something like an empire makes the Comanche a strong candidate to be sure).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The Comanche are from the Southwest, not the Plains, despite their more Plains-like lifestyle. I'd prefer the Nez Perce myself (also not from the Plains but from the Plateau, but they, too, adopted a Plains-style lifestyle).

Their core territory, though, was always the Southwest: western Texas and eastern New Mexico.

To be fair the Great Plains extends south into both Texas and eastern New Mexico, and I consider that different than the South West.

But in that case it makes the Comanche more desirable then though if we must have a Great Plains/Southwest hybrid tribe I think the Apache would be more desirable.

I might be biased but I, and a lot of people from Texas, don't include Texas as part of the Southwest at all, and that's coming from someone who has also lived in Arizona. Texas is it's own thing.