Multiple Maps are most certainly possible, it is just a matter of none of us really wanting to work on them. But now that we have Viewports there isn't any software reason so far as I know that we can't have Multi-Maps.
What should be the team's focus for the next release
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
Multiple Maps are most certainly possible, it is just a matter of none of us really wanting to work on them. But now that we have Viewports there isn't any software reason so far as I know that we can't have Multi-Maps.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
OK, so for NOW MM are not going in anytime soon, from what i am reading, at least not for the next 4 months, am i correct here? So its OFF the table till then, hows that?
OK then, lets move ON to the 2nd most, how involved is THAT (Nomad Start)?
Does anyone even know anything about this?? I am hoping not just one person?(AIAndy)
Give US the who, what where, when and how Please??
OK then, lets move ON to the 2nd most, how involved is THAT (Nomad Start)?
Does anyone even know anything about this?? I am hoping not just one person?(AIAndy)
Give US the who, what where, when and how Please??
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Thing is, about all that, the reason multi-maps is delayed is the same reason any other united direction is delayed. There are too many projects still in the works now. Once those start clearing up, yes, both Multi-Maps and Nomadic Start become immediate goals!
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Sounds very reasonable to me. So all these on HOLD then, till 3 months from now?? Enough time everyone??
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'd love to make promises but I rarely find enough time to keep them 
I'll do what I can!
I'll do what I can!I am not very motivated to do anything for multi maps because it is annoying code and few will ever get to the point where they will enjoy it.
Nomad start on the other hand is something that will have an immediate impact and that motivates me a lot more.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well someone could always start in the larger eras.
But even so the stuff implemented from the Nomad start could be used for space colonies. So Nomad stuff gives a double bonus to where it can be used.
Then again multimaps could be used for underwater/underground maps which could come sooner in the game.
Praetyre
King
Last time I remember, we hadn't even balanced Ancient start, let alone Galactic.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
We got about half way through getting the Ancient Era start workable.
AIAndy makes a good point, which is why I am in favor of some deterministic way of starting in the later eras which would give you the ability to start later with a 'prebuilt' civ (as opposed to DH's ancient era start which works OK for ancient but won't scale well).
Also, I am going to try and do some multi-maps code soon, but I can not do the UI for it, so anything ingame will have to wait for that expertise to happen.
Also, I am going to try and do some multi-maps code soon, but I can not do the UI for it, so anything ingame will have to wait for that expertise to happen.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I totally agree that we should have this project in development - then again, I think we've been chipping away at it here and there for a while now. It could do for some additional direct focus from someone, perhaps you ls, to get it fully fleshed out.
If it were totally up to me I'd work on multi-map stuff to the extent I can and you could look into something like I suggested for later starts. Somewhere I have a draft of what that would look like, if you want I can post it here for you (and others) to look at.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
It'd be a late stage devel project for me if I'm to work on that at all. I don't personally ever forsee myself wanting to start at a later era than the beginning. So I wouldn't have personal motive to develop in that direction despite understanding what it would mean for others, and to the Transhuman/Galactic eras.
Certainly I have no problem with you selecting priorities of your own though We're basically all saying here that we not only have that right but need to exercise it to be as productive as we can be for the mod in general so if multi-maps drives you, if that's what you most want to see come about, I'm pretty sure we're all behind you on that!
Honestly, my biggest hangup is that we need to be able to generate the alternative maps and that's what would take a lot of research. I don't see the point in doing much on the project until we have that step in place. Some UI work would be necessary too but as for the transfer between maps and how that works, I'll assert that I'd happily work on that once I feel we have the rest in progress enough to feel confident that work would not be unnecessarily timed too early. I'm hoping I can finish a number of projects I'm on before I have to get to that though so I'm very patient here.
Certainly I have no problem with you selecting priorities of your own though
We're basically all saying here that we not only have that right but need to exercise it to be as productive as we can be for the mod in general so if multi-maps drives you, if that's what you most want to see come about, I'm pretty sure we're all behind you on that!Honestly, my biggest hangup is that we need to be able to generate the alternative maps and that's what would take a lot of research. I don't see the point in doing much on the project until we have that step in place. Some UI work would be necessary too but as for the transfer between maps and how that works, I'll assert that I'd happily work on that once I feel we have the rest in progress enough to feel confident that work would not be unnecessarily timed too early. I'm hoping I can finish a number of projects I'm on before I have to get to that though so I'm very patient here.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
You should ask Civ Fuehrer for help on the UI. He has done it before and of course is one of the reasons why we have the Galactic Era. Perhaps he can help you.
RidetheSpiral23
C2C Map Team
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
- Messages
- 389
My opinion has little to no weight as of yet but to me it makes more sense to finish adding features to the prehistoric era and do a final balancing before moving on to Ancient. Nomad start needs to be put in before you can finalize balancing for the long term.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I agree with this except that I'd add an appeal for us to make the Nomadic Start optional, thus demanding that it BLEND in with the early game balance and progression expectations as we've already established it - things could be adapted a bit to make more room if it needs more 'time' to resolve this stage of the game during a Nomadic Start but all in all, it should not demand big changes to the tech tree or a huge number of new units.
Most buildings can be addressed in alternative ways (promotions and/or improvements, both of which BECOME the equivalent building in the city when the city is finally planted.) so almost everything can be done in the Nomadic Start in parallel to the progression we already have.
However, some of the culture issues, leader issues and such that we're currently discussing could vastly alter how we need to approach some elements of the Nomadic Start so I feel hammering out those details actually takes a small priority even if it doesn't feel as mission critical right now.
In a lot of ways I think we're more ready now to work on Nomadic Start than we were when we suggested to begin work on it and that's largely due to having a fairly decently established early game balance now (which was far more in-flux before.) I still feel there's a few things we should work out about how the overall game should function before we're quite ready to work on Nomadic Start because once we have it, we'll have to adjust both Nomadic Start and non-Nomadic Start scenarios in parallel with any other adjustment to come yet to the early ages.
It'd be a late stage devel project for me if I'm to work on that at all. I don't personally ever forsee myself wanting to start at a later era than the beginning. So I wouldn't have personal motive to develop in that direction despite understanding what it would mean for others, and to the Transhuman/Galactic eras.
Certainly I have no problem with you selecting priorities of your own though
Honestly, my biggest hangup is that we need to be able to generate the alternative maps and that's what would take a lot of research. I don't see the point in doing much on the project until we have that step in place. Some UI work would be necessary too but as for the transfer between maps and how that works, I'll assert that I'd happily work on that once I feel we have the rest in progress enough to feel confident that work would not be unnecessarily timed too early. I'm hoping I can finish a number of projects I'm on before I have to get to that though so I'm very patient here.
I'm guessing that we could (mis)use GeoRealism to generate maps for the other Multi-Maps (except for Galactic, but that is another issue entirely). But my biggest disincentive to working on Multi-Maps is that it will be incredibly hard to get to or test them in a game setting, combined with the fact that the TH era is a bit of a mess and has very little content or balancing, so it seems that we are at another catch 22 situation there.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Well... we could still start in the TH era... I suppose it would take some work as mentioned to get a proper start enough to test those maps.
The problem with the idea of (mis)using GeoRealism is that I believe, if I'm understanding this properly, it doesn't CREATE a map but is merely a very powerful map EDITOR that redefines the map according to... well... georealism. That kind of ability is amazing, yes, which is why I'm hoping we can get some help from prime on the subject but apparently he's just as in the dark on original mapscripting as you and I are. The only one here I think that has that skillset enough to move forward on that would be AIAndy. For the rest of us, we'd really have to:
1) Figure out how mapscripting works in the first place
then
2) Create a dll driven map generation structure that is generic enough to work with a host of differing variables enough to be capable of generating all the various sorts of maps we need according to differing xml defined rules.
and
3) Define the timing of this map generation. I believe we've been given the way to store and refer to the maps once created and that's been Koshling's all too professional contribution.
THEN we work into
4) Python scripting for various special map effects such as planet orbits.
5) Develop UI methods to switch between maps at will that are a bit easier and smoother than hinging on the Military Advisor (though since that's done this step should be much easier overall as its just about adding more functionality to the main screen via new button(s))
5) Develop the methods of travel between those maps for units. (This would be what I would be able to do with my current skillset I believe.) The first part of Step 3 and this one may have to blend a bit but I'm thinking a tech OR wonder achievement would be the best way to call for initiation of a map instead(just as it does for map centering.) One should have the other maps available for some (possibly limited) study before being able to send units to them. We were able to view the moon for a long time with telescopes before we could go there!
What was it you had in mind to work on specifically?
EDIT: Another item that would NEED to be addressed before moving on any of this: Repairing the 'area' issues that arise when we have more dynamic maps that change during the game.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
As soon as all the new terrain types of PrimeOver are added and edited in the GEM, I was going to make a TH era Map. That would be ok for testing multi maps I think. Also, it would be great to test TH era stuff and flesh that era out a bit more.
And as for multimaps in general, I'd like to see them in the game, but I also see no point to add them until the game is a good balanced challenge from start to the late modern era.
I am a bit underinformed most likely but what is the big problem behind "multimaps" idea?
I mean I understand they are hard to achieve without open code so why not make galactic era other way around?
- One big map separated with enough pure black tiles so other planets are not visible and some kind of lock-camera so You wont scroll through the entire "map" without having proper tech,
- Landing on new planet via spawnpoint (we start from our NASA station or whatever and "land" spawn randomly on desired "planet" which is map section from x1,y1 to x2,y2?),
- Of course we avoid whole space battles thing this way but it's easy to make and - be serious - real space journey would be more like "find planet, make insane investmet to colony it as a one-time-trip and MAYBE establish some transport between planets" then "star wars, hell yeah",
- We also force flat-map playing this way but again, we can live without that,
Sorry if it was discussed before - I'm having little time these days so searching through the forum is not an option - don't be mad ;-)
I mean I understand they are hard to achieve without open code so why not make galactic era other way around?
- One big map separated with enough pure black tiles so other planets are not visible and some kind of lock-camera so You wont scroll through the entire "map" without having proper tech,
- Landing on new planet via spawnpoint (we start from our NASA station or whatever and "land" spawn randomly on desired "planet" which is map section from x1,y1 to x2,y2?),
- Of course we avoid whole space battles thing this way but it's easy to make and - be serious - real space journey would be more like "find planet, make insane investmet to colony it as a one-time-trip and MAYBE establish some transport between planets" then "star wars, hell yeah",
- We also force flat-map playing this way but again, we can live without that,
Sorry if it was discussed before - I'm having little time these days so searching through the forum is not an option - don't be mad ;-)
Similar threads
