What the Israelis really think of the UN

[shadow2k]

The United States has constantly underminded the UN, so that the UN has not been able to enforce it's mandates. By your logic, the US has allowed innocent Israelis to be killeed.

The US has nothing to do with those troops, and what they can or can't do. Their mandate was the problem. They are meant to be observers, cease fire brokers, and make sure fighting doesn't escalate. What needed to be done was for Hezbollah to be stopped from firing rockets into Israel, or disarmed completely. The UN troops did not have a sufficient mandate to do any such thing.

 

[shadow2k]

If you are talking about the resolutions, the fact that there still isn't a Palestinian state demonstates well what is wrong with Isreal's actions.

Palestine has been offered one twice, as recently as 2000, specifically by the Clinton administration. Palestine did not accept. Do a bit of research on it.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Meh. Like I said, you can't expect Arabs to except UN mandates when Isreali's are aloud to flout them. The US allows Isreal to flout them.

And don't react too much to my comment about the US being responsiable for deaths, I did say 'by your logic' as I was mocking Skadistic's putting blame on the UN themselves.

Anyway, i'm tired and hungry, will discuss topic furtere tommorow if I come online at all.

 

[shadow2k]

In this situation yes, and it is a sad enditement of the bias that is passed towards Israel. Let's face it, it's got a friend that does nothing to let it face the music, and sits back and advocates a policy that is so one sided it's pointless, the rest of the world looks on in despair. Let's get back to a time where it actually cares about the other side, or slide ourselves into an oblivion of bias that makes the whole afair meanigless, it isn't the UN that is powerless, it is the US that makes it so, sad state of affairs, and you wonder why you get so much flak, no impartiality ATM, no care for anything but your own views.

How can peace be achieved if only your side is represented? The UN goes all impartial but you don't care and if you keep kicking the we are so right vibe and everyone else is wrong, nothing will come of it. Let both sides face the music and dance, or let nothing be achieved, balls in your court. You once tried to give both sides a fair deal, now all you do is advocate meaningless yin without a yang.

How exactly did the US make those 2,000 UN troops ineffective in Lebanon?

 

[Kyriakos]

Perhaps this will wake some of the governements of those now so undeservedly killed, UN officials.
That is the only positive that can come out of this very avoidable tragedy is an outcry against such barbarism, if the claims that the outpost has been deliberately shelled (and shelled for quite some time before being finally bombed to bits) are correct.

 

[Elrohir]

UN soldiers in the middle of a warzone get hurt, and the Israeli's are to blame?

If Israel deliberately targeted UN soldiers, then that's wrong. But there's no proof of that, and the UN has shown that it's absolutely useless when it comes to stopping the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah/Hamas. If they're not going to help, they should get out of the way.

 

[Leatherneck]

Well the US media is reporting that it was at least 2 were killed and Kofi Annan is blasting away at the act ... (note to Kofi guess you should have enforced 1559 instead of collecting oil for food money.)

Sad fact is people get killed in war, innocent, guilty, by-standers, a bullet, bomb, missle doesn't know the one side from the other. Israel had at least one friendly fire report ... perhaps they are attacking themselves too. The UN observers that were killed were not the first, Hezoballah has killed and attacked many UN observers and workers, but I don't see/hear/read any out cry from that. Seems somewhat odd ... guess the same rules don't apply to them.

 

[Norlamand]

Meh. Like I said, you can't expect Arabs to except UN mandates when Isreali's are aloud to flout them. The US allows Isreal to flout them.

And don't react too much to my comment about the US being responsiable for deaths, I did say 'by your logic' as I was mocking Skadistic's putting blame on the UN themselves.

Anyway, i'm tired and hungry, will discuss topic furtere tommorow if I come online at all.

The UN is well within its rights to enforce their own resolutions and mandates. The US can only use its veto in the Security Council. Other UN members can, inividually or as a whole, boycott Israel and the US for that matter. The US allows Israel to flout UN resolutions like the UN lets Saudia Arabia, China, North Korea, Sudan etc to flout human rights.

 

[the mormegil]

Well the US media is reporting that it was at least 2 were killed and Kofi Annan is blasting away at the act ... (note to Kofi guess you should have enforced 1559 instead of collecting oil for food money.)

Sad fact is people get killed in war, innocent, guilty, by-standers, a bullet, bomb, missle doesn't know the one side from the other. Israel had at least one friendly fire report ... perhaps they are attacking themselves too. The UN observers that were killed were not the first, Hezoballah has killed and attacked many UN observers and workers, but I don't see/hear/read any out cry from that. Seems somewhat odd ... guess the same rules don't apply to them.

People expect it of Hezbollah, they don't expect it of a civilised nation like Isreal, so more people comment on Isreal - leading some to believe people favour Hezbollah, when I think very few (if any) do.

It's not very nice to see some people are condeming the UN troops for being bombed and killed as if they are to blame. If it was accidental then ok, but if it was intentional (hard to prove) then Isreal have some explaining to do...

 

[Leatherneck]

People expect it of Hezbollah, they don't expect it of a civilised nation like Isreal, so more people comment on Isreal - leading some to believe people favour Hezbollah, when I think very few (if any) do.

It's not very nice to see some people are condeming the UN troops for being bombed and killed as if they are to blame. If it was accidental then ok, but if it was intentional (hard to prove) then Isreal have some explaining to do...

Exactly right, I think it was an accident, it happens, its sad, but it happens. So then without getting off on another topic how is any Nation to make peace and have talks with a group that plays by their own rules. I don't think you can.

 

[Ramius75]

It's doubtful that Israel struck their observation posts on purpose. They would have nothing to gain. More likely, the observation post was caught in the crossfire, which serves them right for being a sitting duck in the middle of a war. Besides, the UN peacekeapers were deployed to Lebanon years ago, and yet weren't doing jack. What were they doing, other than observing, even now, when peace was certainly not present?

Or perhaps that the Israel has no consquences to fear ??? Any sanction or action put towards the Israel will be vetoed by the daddy USA. Which made Israel unaccountable for its action.

Maybe its a warning shot, stay clear or get shot. Same scenerio when the Resistance in Iraq attacked the UN compound which was there to help.

Both dont want peace.

 

[Ramius75]

The UN is well within its rights to enforce their own resolutions and mandates. The US can only use its veto in the Security Council. Other UN members can, inividually or as a whole, boycott Israel and the US for that matter. The US allows Israel to flout UN resolutions like the UN lets Saudia Arabia, China, North Korea, Sudan etc to flout human rights.

i dont see much human right in the USA either.

 

[GinandTonic]

When thoes military men signed up to be soldiers they knew the risks as did the families. The UN "peace keepers" where there to keep peace and enforce 1559. They failed they have no one to blame but themselves and the worthless UN that sent them there. When you fail in war you die.

I hope you are drunk, if your comments in this thread reflect your views you are out of your tree. You appear to be saying that deliberate killing of non-combatant observers is justified because the situation is bad? Im trying to see the logical step between x and y but you know its just beyone me...

Note im not saying that they were deliberately killed, but that this seems to be what you are defending.

 

[sonorakitch]

i dont see much human right in the USA either.

Hahahaha that isn't in the US....its in Cuba!!!

~Chris

 

[Ramius75]

Hahahaha that isn't in the US....its in Cuba!!!

~Chris

doh, how silly of me.

 

[amadeus]

Meh.

Not meh.

Arafat was offered 97% of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem, Palestinian "right of return" to the Arab territories, and $30 billion in international aid.

Imagine having Exxon, IBM, Wal-Mart, General Electric, and GM all fall into your lap at once only just to turn it down! You'd have to be insane!

 

[El_Machinae]

Hezoballah has killed and attacked many UN observers and workers, but I don't see/hear/read any out cry from that.

Lately? Can I get a cite?

 

[King Alexander]

I cannot believe what some people on this thread are saying! They justify the killing of the UN observers in the area... Israel knew exactly where the outpost was, and it's unacceptable any excuse that "it was a horrible mistake!" They should hand over those who did the bombing to be trialed at an international court.
What did the UN people do there? Maybe, record crimes like phosphorous bombs being used? How about bombs with metal fragments?

I also cannot believe when people try to JUSTIFY Israel's actions comparing them to the actions of Hizbollah: nice logic there...it compares a (serious?) state to an extremist team.

As for Israel not fearing anything about the crimes of the civilians due to the United States of Israel...I mean...United States of America vetoe anything, what can I say? Those who help by sending extra bombs so the bombing of (full of civilians) buildings in Lebanon can be continued, are equally responsible, and I'm very SORRY if I say this thing.

***Notice I didn't blame the people of the USA or Israel, but those in command: war criminals can be hunted down for many decades, like it was the case with axis criminals escaping Nuremberg and hiding in various places all over the world, until they were uncovered by secret agencies and were put on trial, so, in the long run, all options are open...

As for those people who justify the killings of civilians(a CERTAIN war crime, in the modern age), why don't they also accept the dropping of a nuke? It'll be easier to end the war, either here or at Iraq(when the war was on) or at any other place!
Thing is, if they're willing to accept nukes to be used in war fields, they should also be prepared if someone also used a nuke against them(using the exact same logic) or if someone kills their civilians with no pity at all, treats them worse than animals, as well as doesn't respect any ideal of Democracy and Justice(well, there's a place in Cuba that is a true monument of Democracy and Justice, but that's another story... ).

 

[skadistic]

I hope you are drunk, if your comments in this thread reflect your views you are out of your tree. You appear to be saying that deliberate killing of non-combatant observers is justified because the situation is bad? Im trying to see the logical step between x and y but you know its just beyone me...

Note im not saying that they were deliberately killed, but that this seems to be what you are defending.

What I'm saying is that when soldiers are in a war zone expect them to get killed weather its intentional or not.
The UN sent them there to enforce 1559 and stop a war from breaking out. They failed. Hezbola struck first. Hezbola should have been unable to strike. If the UN and its soldiers had done thier job, A) there would be no war now B) the UN soldiers would still be alive. Non-combatant obsevers should not be in the middle of a war zone and if they are its thier own fault for being there. The UN has done squat to help in the area. They sit there and watch instead of acting, acting is what thioer job is. They failed at thier job and thier failure resulted in UN soldiers getting killed. I highly doubt Israel targeted UN soldiers becuase they were UN. But I wouldn't blame them if they did. The UN sides with hezbola by allowing it to arm itself and then dilliberatly target civilians. The UN is to blame for the deaths of the UN soldiers no matter how you slice it.

 

[Spartan117]

the un is "powerless" only because the obvious reason, is that it is very difficult to have some hundred something countries with different interests to agree to things/situations/ etc...

what happens now in the middle east is a result of the failure of the UN in trying to achieve a compromise between the state of israel and palestine

@skadistic

what you said is similiar to saying: a person affliated with gangs is attempting to shoot somebody else alos associated with gangs, but strikes an innocent bystander, well obviously its the bystanders fault for dying, because they should have known there are gangs in the area

or at least its smomewhat similiar