What was Kael's reasoning...?

[Horatius]

What was Kael's reasoning to give Battlemasters the 50% bonus in tundra (and nothing else when they are more expensive...) when there's hardly much of those tiles in any reasonably balanced map (just in the edges)?
I still don't get it.
Sure, they pack a punch in the tundra, but when?

Ilians can at least turn tiles to ice in more than one way.

Why give Malakim such advantages related to desert but the Doviello must get almost nothing for their inner abilities?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

nobody knows, there's tons of missed opportunities in the mod

 

[Heathcliff]

I think it's because Doviello starts with a 4 strength dude and hence has the best starting position of all civs. So they cant get that powerful terrain.
There is a reason why Doviello warriorrushes every game, so they can get a city with better terrain.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Why give Malakim such advantages related to desert but the Doviello must get almost nothing for their inner abilities?

The Malakim aren't much in desert. In original FFH, they're floodplains people. Guess that explains that half their units looks Egyptian and half their units looks Arabian.

And true, FFH contains some rather weird quirks.

There is a reason why Doviello warriorrushes every game, so they can get a city with better terrain.

They warrior rush because they are at their strongest early. It doesn't really do anything to do with terrain. They probably deserve a +1 on tundra so that it would be equal to Plains for them. Not overpowered, but flavourful.

 

[Nor'easter]

I haven't played vanilla FfH2 in a long time, so had to look this up in the Civilopedia. Battlemasters don't require a Training Yard, unlike Champions, so making them more expensive was probably a balancing measure.

I'm guessing giving them the bonus in tundra was just a flavor matter, since you're right that tundra will generally be in the remoter parts of the map. Might give an advantage if you play with the End of Winter option, although by the time you get to Battlemasters the world should have warmed up, so any advantage would be minimal, at best.

 

[Lone Wolf]

No Doviello melee unit requires a Training Yard. That is supposed to be a Doviello perk, you shouldn't balance it away.

 

[Valkrionn]

An innate tundra bonus would be no more flavorful than no bonus; they do not want to live in tundra, they simply have to (all they know). A camp bonus would be more flavorful and more valuable; better shows how they live, rather than encouraging settlement in tundra.

 

[Lone Wolf]

+1 hammer doesn't really encourage settlement in tundra - it turns it to plains, and areas of all plains aren't that desirable - grasslands with forests and hills or floodplains are still more desirable. It just makes tundra more bearable for them - which it's certainly is.

 

[Horatius]

It would be nice if they could transform the enemy's terrain during war like the Ilians.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Well, lorewise they don't really have any terrain-changing powers.

 

[Valkrionn]

+1 hammer doesn't really encourage settlement in tundra - it turns it to plains, and areas of all plains aren't that desirable - grasslands with forests and hills or floodplains are still more desirable. It just makes tundra more bearable for them - which it's certainly is.

And you would see the exact same benefit, in a much more flavorful way, with a camp bonus rather than an innate terrain boost. They aren't supposed to like Tundra, but know how to live there. Affecting the entire terrain is (imo) like using a sledge hammer.

 

[Selrahc]

And you would see the exact same benefit, in a much more flavorful way, with a camp bonus rather than an innate terrain boost. They aren't supposed to like Tundra, but know how to live there. Affecting the entire terrain is (imo) like using a sledge hammer.

A camp bonus may debatably be more flavourful, but it certainly isn't of equal strength.

 

[Valkrionn]

I would disagree. On any reasonable map, most tundra tiles contain forests. The bonus would be able to be applied to nearly all tundra tiles as a result. Beyond that, the bonus would apply in all OTHER forested tiles, thereby giving a bonus in far more locations. It also allows the Doviello to pursue a lore-appropriate religion, FoL (always see them as a very chaotic variant of FoL) better than any civ short of the Elves.

If anything, boosted camps are stronger in game than boosted tundra, while also more appropriate.

 

[CyberForte]

I think the problem is that base FfH doesn't, unless I'm recalling wrongly, allow camps to be built except on harvestable resources?

 

[Nor'easter]

I think the problem is that base FfH doesn't, unless I'm recalling wrongly, allow camps to be built except on harvestable resources?

I haven't played base FfH2 in a long time, but that's my recollection also.

 

[Valkrionn]

Eh. Certainly not true of RifE, I haven't played FfH in years though.

 

[Nor'easter]

Same here, I've pretty much been exclusively playing RifE for the longest time.

 

[Valkrionn]

Same here, I've pretty much been exclusively playing RifE for the longest time.

Speaking of which: sometime in the next few days I'll likely be making a thread asking for trait ideas for quite a few leaders. You've contibuted before, so I'm hoping you'll have some ideas for me.

 

[Nor'easter]

Thanks for the good word, Valkrionn. I think it's been a while since I had a useful idea or suggestion, but I'll be happy to contribute whatever I can. (I did have some suggestions long ago that made it into base FfH2 and were carried over into the modmods, so I'm content with that.)

Back on-topic (sort of), there have been quite a few threads discussing the Doviello. I particularly liked this one, especially Xienwolf's ideas in this post and this post. Took me some time to track it down, so just had to share.

 

[CyberForte]

Eh. Certainly not true of RifE, I haven't played FfH in years though.

Same here. <.<; Was why I had to go back and open up WB and try it before I said anything, though I didn't try exhaustively.