What was the Black Death/Great Plague?

[Winner]

I am not sure this is a question solely for the History forum, so I am posting it here:

I am talking about the big one, the 14th century pandemic which wiped out about 1/3 to 1/2 of Europe's population (yes, I know other areas were hit badly as well). I was taught it was the bubonic plague and came to accept it as one of these historical facts one doesn't really doubt. But recently, I've found few articles and saw few documentaries in which it was claimed that the bubonic plague theory is now shaking in its foundations, and that the pandemic was more likely caused by some other, probably now extinct disease (caused by a virus, not bacteria).

Is there anything to it, or is it just another trendy attempt to reinvent history? I am not an expert in any area concerning this issue, so I'd like to hear some more qualified opinions (I've read the Wiki article, so don't link it for reference).

 

[TheLastOne36]

Think about it this way, The Spanish Influenza was 'dormant' for a few decades, and only came back now as the newly evolved 'Swine Flu'. (or something like that, someone may correct me)

The Black Death has likely evolved to other illneses over time similarly, What it is though, I have no clue.

 

[Dachs]

The only things I know about the Black Death relate to its political and economic effects, not the biological side. Sorry.

 

[Bill3000]

I will be covering this in my "Europe in the Later Middle Ages" class on November 18th, so if you wait till then I should know about this.

*checks textbook*

The Blck Death (1356 - 1353), so named by later historians looking back on the disease, was likely caused by Yersinia pestis, the bacterium of the plague. (Some historians dispute this.)

It doesn't say much about the controversy.

 

[Winner]

This is an article referenced in the Wiki entry.

It says that if it indeed had been a hemorrhagic fever as the two scientists say it was, it has probably died out in the 17th century. It killed people too fast and allowed too few to survive, so the affected populations developed genetic immunity to it.

Also, the article says that the source of the confusion may lie in the fact that there were in fact two large-scale epidemics going on at the same time - one caused by a virus in Europe and one by the bubonic plague in Asia and the Middle East.

I don't know, the arguments of the virus camp seem solid - it spread too fast, killed too fast, the symptoms don't match that of bubonic plague etc.

 

[Cynovolans]

The bubonic plague is still the most widely accepted cause of Black Death. It is being challenged now because some areas like Iceland were hit hard by Black Death, and since the bubonic plague spreads through rats and there were no rats in Iceland it is now being disregarded as the cause of Black Death. Though I have no idea what the other alternative cause was.

 

[Angst]

It was God's will.

(Stds)

 

[SG-17]

Maybe it was both a virus and Yersinia pestis. Heck when I had the swine flu two weeks ago I had a co-infection as well. Seems plausible.

 

[Winner]

The bubonic plague is still the most widely accepted cause of Black Death. It is being challenged now because some areas like Iceland were hit hard by Black Death, and since the bubonic plague spreads through rats and there were no rats in Iceland it is now being disregarded as the cause of Black Death. Though I have no idea what the other alternative cause was.

Also one of the articles says then even in the Middle Ages, people soon realized that the only effective way to deal with the plague was to quarantine the area for 40 days. If there were no new cases, the disease was gone.

That would make no sense if the disease was transmitted by fleas living on rats, right? If that was the case, the disease would not need human hosts and would attack people more or less randomly, not in waves.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Also the Rat Theory with the Black Death doesn't make sense for Poland. Poland didn't get the Black Death and it obviously had rats.

 

[SG-17]

How warm does Poland get in the summer? Also wasn't the "Little Ice-Age" going on at the same time too?

 

[Dachs]

TLO - You mean, "Poland was relatively mildly affected by the Black Death". There were cases.

 

[Winner]

Also the Rat Theory with the Black Death doesn't make sense for Poland. Poland didn't get the Black Death and it obviously had rats.

Well, that's not the main reason. Poland was lightly hit (not completely spared) for other reasons - it had lower population density than Western European countries and more importantly, it was outside the main trade routes crossing medieval Europe. Some other relatively isolated places were only lightly hit as well.

(but some were hit exceptionally hard - Iceland/Norway for example. Might be explained with their long coastlines and high probability of getting the infection from passing ships)

 

[TheLastOne36]

TLO - You mean, "Poland was relatively mildly affected by the Black Death". There were cases.

There were cases, but it doesn't make sense for Poland to be mildly effected when the rest of Europe was having the worst pandemic in history, if the pandemic was carried by rats.

Also Poland had a Golden Age at the time because the rest of Europe was lacking because of the Pandemic. So it is quite clear we did not get affected much at all. (few cases here and there I guess)

What was Poland doing differently from other European countries at the time than? If we knew that, than we can probably reduce the number of suspects.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Well, that's not the main reason. Poland was lightly hit (not completely spared) for other reasons - it had lower population density than Western European countries and more importantly, it was outside the main trade routes crossing medieval Europe. Some other relatively isolated places were only lightly hit as well.

(but some were hit exceptionally hard - Iceland/Norway for example. Might be explained with their long coastlines and high probability of getting the infection from passing ships)

Not really, we had dense population in the cities.

Trade routes could also be a factor I didn't consider before, If rats were the cause, than Trade Routes wouldn't matter, but if they werent, than the disease wasn't transmitted by Rats.

So Bravo, we have figured out one thing, the disease wasn't carried by Rats.

 

[Winner]

Yeah, one more thing - I've always wondered, even at school: it is said that the plague killed all people indiscriminately: rich and poor, villagers and city people. My reaction is Rich people lived among rats too? I'd say that the aristocrats/traders preferred clean houses and washed more often, so they should theoretically be less susceptible to a disease carried by fleas, right?

 

[Bill3000]

Also Poland had a Golden Age at the time because the rest of Europe was lacking because of the Pandemic. So it is quite clear we did not get affected much at all. (few cases here and there I guess)

A Golden Age caused by the absence of loss of prosperity as opposed to increased prosperity isn't really much of a Golden Age.

 

[Winner]

Gods, spare me of Poland threadjacking disease, please

 

[SG-17]

When was the plague first documented and, I know it supposedly came mostly from trade ships from Asia, but where in Asia?

 

[holy king]

are there contemporary accounts of the symptoms/course of the disease?

i'd say if it quacks like bubonic plague..