Whatever happened to Grand Ol' England?

[Knowltok]

Possibly because there wouldn't be much Brits left, yes.

Why is that?

 

[Kal'thzar]

Well, I'm not suggesting it, but I doubt you'd see too many more brits taken hostage...

Thats the kind of proviso is what the article was talking about

Somehow I doubt that Iran would have taken hostages if my comment was a widely held opinion in Britian, to countries taking hostages of your peoples....

Not that I'm suggesting it of course

 

[Knowltok]

Seemed to me that the article was practically suggesting it.

 

[Winner]

Possibly because there wouldn't be much Brits left, yes.

Why, French would nuke Britain or what?

 

[Virote_Considon]

Meh. If we nuke Iran, what's the worst that will happen? A few Muslim extremists will shout "Allah! Akbar!", and a few diplomats will complain, and a few peacenick governments will condemn our actions. And that's IT.

 

[steveedster]

I don't feel contempt at all for the lady, but I do feel sympathy. It would be terrible to be humiliated like that, and even worse to see your government sit back and do nothing.

Honestly, I'm not pro-war, and hope full scale war isn't the result of the situation, but if Iran can't act like a civilized country, they shouldn't be treated like one.

If you think the British government is sitting back and doing nothing then you are mistaken. of course they are doing things, the thing is in these situations were there are hostages being held you have to be very diplomatic, now once these guys have been released i would not be surprised to see much more royal navy activity patrolling the waters were this happened, and any iranian gunboat so much as flicks its udder accross that border then it will end up in little pieces.

 

[Winner]

If you think the British government is sitting back and doing nothing then you are mistaken. of course they are doing things, the thing is in these situations were there are hostages being held you have to be very diplomatic, now once these guys have been released i would not be surprised to see much more royal navy activity patrolling the waters were this happened, and any iranian gunboat so much as flicks its udder accross that border then it will end up in little pieces.

This isn't just about the captured sailors, you know.

 

[Brighteye]

Iran's actions are disgraceful. At times like these the government should issue an ultimatum, giving them maybe a week to return our sailors to the consulate, or something similar, healthy, well-fed and unharmed.
Otherwise we bomb them, shell them or show them what happens when we really do infiltrate their territory, by having the SAS blow a few installations up.

When they fail to comply, we jump at the excuse to let those Scottish barbarians off the leash, and send the SAS in.

Maybe the government has done this, but quietly. However, Iran would probably have trumpeted it to the world, so I doubt it. Instead the government has shown that it has about as much strength as the UN, and has sent a few complaints. Hooray.

The soldiers should be able to refuse the Iranians, safe in the knowledge that if they were executed Iran would be reduced to greater poverty than Ethiopia.

 

[steveedster]

This isn't just about the captured sailors, you know.

i know this but at the moment in britain its about getting them back, once we have them back, then we can do whatever else we want.

 

[Brighteye]

I disagree. If we allow hostage-takers to have that sort of power over us they'll all want to kidnap British citizens, and not give them back.

Just like at school, we need to be tough. It doesn't matter if we're not the biggest or strongest. We need to show that if you mess with us, we'll take you down, even if we go with you.

After a few times like that people very very quickly learn not to mess with you, even if they are bigger. Looking at it from a modern perspective, it's simple game theory. Since Britain is more powerful than Iran, it should be an easy strategy to implement.

 

[Winner]

i know this but at the moment in britain its about getting them back, once we have them back, then we can do whatever else we want.

Then the lefties will say "we have the sailors, so why should we do anything more?".

Now is the time to act.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Then the lefties will say "we have the sailors, so why should we do anything more?".

Now is the time to act.

Have to agree, if it cannot be easily resolved diplomatically. you must act. taking action is much more important than making 100% sure that its the right action

 

[Winner]

Have to agree, if it cannot be easily resolved diplomatically. you must act. taking action is much more important than making 100% sure that its the right action

Not what I said, but I do think that doing nothing is worse than doing something, even if it turns out to be wrong.

 

[Little Raven]

Ralph Peters has now weighed in on the subject. He's...amusing...as always.

THE greatest shock from the Middle East this year hasn't been terrorist ruthlessness or the latest Iranian tantrum. It's that members of Britain's Royal Marines wimped out in a matter of days and acquiesced in propaganda broadcasts for their captors.

Jingoism aside, I can't imagine any squad of U.S. Marines behaving in such a shabby, cowardly fashion. Our Marines would have fought to begin with. Taken captive by force, they would've resisted collaboration. To the last man and woman.

You could put a U.S. Marine in a dungeon and knock out his teeth, but you wouldn't knock out his pride in his country and the Corps. "Semper fi" means something.

And our Aussie allies would be just as tough.

What on earth happened to the Royal Marines?

 

[IglooDame]

The penalty for espionage in Iran is death. However, similar accusations of spying were made when eight British servicemen were detained in the same area in 2004. They were paraded blindfolded on television but did not appear in court and were freed after three nights in detention.

Funny, why don't I remember the earlier incident?

And when the US Embassy was taken over by Iranian students, did the US Marines go down fighting?

At least in the late 90s, Geneva Convention training to sailors (regular sailors similar to the Royal Navy sailors in this case, not SEALs or pilots) regarding capture by the enemy could be summed up "do whatever they say, sign letters, make statements, whatever - they'll torture you till you do anyway, and since they're probably good at torturing people and you're probably inexperienced at being tortured, you'll probably give it up in the end and only feel worse."

 

[GinandTonic]

Funny, why don't I remember the earlier incident?

And when the US Embassy was taken over by Iranian students, did the US Marines go down fighting?

At least in the late 90s, Geneva Convention training to sailors (regular sailors similar to the Royal Navy sailors in this case, not SEALs or pilots) regarding capture by the enemy could be summed up "do whatever they say, sign letters, make statements, whatever - they'll torture you till you do anyway, and since they're probably good at torturing people and you're probably inexperienced at being tortured, you'll probably give it up in the end and only feel worse."

Exactly. Even Special Forces are only trained to resist for a very limited time - basically their orders being "give the lads time to get clear then spill (most of) your guts". The people who are placed in harms way generally dont get told much specifically so they cannot spill the beans - torture all you will but these guys dont know jack, and whatever you make them say doesnt signify to anyone with half a brain. Makes torture fairly redundant.

 

[Knowltok]

True. I don't blame the Brits a bit for anything at all that they might say. In fact, the more absurd the **** is they say, the more it makes it clear they are speaking under duress.

 

[bhsup]

Do you suppose the British troops would be released if, oh, say the families of the ruling Mullahs were kidnapped and the Mullahs started receiving fingers and whatnot in the mail?

I am not advocating it, I am just curious if people think the Mullahs would respond to terror better than they would to diplomacy.