When did feminism go completely crazy?

[CavLancer]

Damn, having read some of this I can say that I really don't miss the US. Here in the Philippines life is more sane for all concerned. Relationships are less contentious and more cooperative. Family is the number 1 priority, not 'me'. Plus, if some guy mistreats a woman he's to blame, not all guys. Here its possible to be innocent of a crime for the simple reason that one hasn't committed that crime. From what I've read here, in the US if you're a guy, you are guilty.

From this vantage point of peace and freedom its as if the whole of the US is losing it over a misguided, anger and hate filled phantasm of delusion.

Glad I don't have to deal with it in my daily life. I can leave this thread and and the subject behind if I choose to, and its a good ability to have.

 

[JollyRoger]

Im not certain you could prove that....

Then why the heck are you demanding it be proven?

 

[Arwon]

I've seriously never seen a feminist discuss one single issue that affects men.

Say what? You've never seen a feminist discuss child abuse? Domestic violence? The perniciousness of assumptions about gender roles in family life, the workplace and society at large? The construction of masculinity as being violent, sexually aggressive, suppressing emotions, and how those things are alienating and limiting for many men?

 

[Recon Rover]

Really warpus?

23 ways feminism has made the world a better place for men

 

[Traitorfish]

You can throw the Illinois redneck in your bibliography while you're at it.

"Illinois Redneck" would be a good band name.

 

[sophie]

Damn, having read some of this I can say that I really don't miss the US. Here in the Philippines life is more sane for all concerned. Relationships are less contentious and more cooperative. Family is the number 1 priority, not 'me'. Plus, if some guy mistreats a woman he's to blame, not all guys. Here its possible to be innocent of a crime for the simple reason that one hasn't committed that crime. From what I've read here, in the US if you're a guy, you are guilty.

From this vantage point of peace and freedom its as if the whole of the US is losing it over a misguided, anger and hate filled phantasm of delusion.

Glad I don't have to deal with it in my daily life. I can leave this thread and and the subject behind if I choose to, and its a good ability to have.

Ha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_Philippines

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/376614/news/specialreports/special-report-rape-in-the-philippines-numbers-reveal-disturbing-trend

 

[Triewd]

Then why the heck are you demanding it be proven?

FACEPALM

Because its an unreasonable statement - don't try to deflect this to me.

People should not try to dismiss peoples arguments with Ad hominem about them its intellectually dishonest.

And on the subject of unreasonable statements are we all going to ignore things Feminists have said:

Up to and including Genicide , dehumanizing, justifying false accusations??

 

[JollyRoger]

FACEPALM

Because its an unreasonable statement - don't try to deflect this to me.

You are the one that says it may not be possible to prove (impliedly, even if true) while demanding it be proven. Don't try and deflect your own unreasonableness.

 

[daft]

Say what? You've never seen a feminist discuss child abuse? Domestic violence? The perniciousness of assumptions about gender roles in family life, the workplace and society at large? The construction of masculinity as being violent, sexually aggressive, suppressing emotions, and how those things are alienating and limiting for many men?

Heard about cases when a female beat up a guy and not the other way around.
Gender roles in family life were developed several thousand years ago. If you were surrounded by extremely dangerous wild life or other hostile tribes would you send your woman to hunt or to battle?
You want men to cry like babies? Why don't you look it up? Women prefer real men, not whiny crybabies.

 

[Triewd]

You are the one that says it may not be possible to prove (impliedly, even if true) while demanding it be proven. Don't try and deflect your own unreasonableness.

No. When you claim something is Racist and Sexist YOU have to prove it.

I don't think this forum has an ignore function but for tonight I think I am done with this thread.

And do not try to Ad Hominem me seriously I am profoundly unimpressed.

 

[Arwon]

Heard about cases when a female beat up a guy and not the other way around.
Gender roles in family life were developed several thousand years ago. If you were surrounded by extremely dangerous wild life or other hostile tribes would you send your woman to hunt or to battle?
You want men to cry like babies? Why don't you look it up? Women prefer real men, not whiny crybabies.

Sorry mate I think you've left out a bunch of words or something, this post makes no sense.

Also female humans are called "women".

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Traitorfish has gotten an image of Dawkins by seeing what he's done and said.

How is that not a "legitimate" enough reason?

Okay, so Traitorfish has an opinion. How was that opinion formed? What exactly did Dawkins do and say?

Does a youtube video of the man count as proof?

Well, that little bit of a video earlier in this thread wasn't proof of anything. Dawkins was quoting a feminist writer who was saying some really ridiculous things.

Where is this video where Dawkins is behaving so horribly? I guess I could always watch every Dawkins video out there, but there are likely many more than I've got time to look at for this one thing, and there are other videos I'm planning to see - my daily soap, for instance, and the several TV series I'm binge-watching. I'm doing NaNoWriMo this month, running an avatar contest on another site, and organizing my book collection.

So if there's a link to this video, I'd appreciate seeing the evidence for myself.

An impression, acquired over time.

Acquired from where? Online? His books? Did you have a negative encounter with him offline?

 

[sophie]

Okay, so Traitorfish has an opinion. How was that opinion formed? What exactly did Dawkins do and say?

Watch literally any youtube video he's in. He's as insufferable as Bill Maher.

 

[daft]

Sorry mate I think you've left out a bunch of words or something, this past makes no sense.

past?
you mean post?
My post refers to your post, which is quoted, read mine carefully and then post back.
Namely it refers to the Gender Roles in family life, Spousal Abuse and hiding of emotions you mentioned in your post.

 

[cardgame]

What issues do men have that feminism doesn't consider?

More than you probably even want to read.

I'll grant that feminism does list many of those issues in its to-do list, but simultaneously many are ignored.

For example, an excerpt:

Examples/evidence: The first example comes from Simon Fraser University near Vancouver, where the women’s centre opposed efforts to create a comparable men’s centre (which was to be given the same funding). The idea behind the men’s centre was to address men’s issues like suicide, alcoholism, drug abuse, and negative stereotypes, but the women’s centre opposed it by insisting that “the men’s centre is everywhere else” (despite the fact that those men’s issues certainly aren’t being addressed “everywhere else&#8221. Instead they offered a rather spiteful alternative [1]:

The website lists support for the idea of a “male allies project” that would “bring self-identified men together to talk about masculinity and its harmful effects.” Masculinity, it says, “denigrates women by making them into sexual objects, is homophobic, encourages violence, and discourages emotional expression.”


---

I don't know what you can call misandry if not those last two sentences.

More examples exist in the same vein.

Spoiler :

The third example comes from Ryerson University, which is also in Toronto. Three students (one man and two women) decided to start a club dedicated to men’s issues. They were blocked by the Ryerson Students’ Union, which associated the men’s issues club with supposed “anti-women’s rights groups” and called the idea that it’s even possible to be sexist against men an “oppressive concept” [4]:

There’s been a lot of work across campuses not only in Ontario but also across the country that have been working sort of [as] anti-women’s rights groups. We want to acknowledge that the additions that we added here are regarding the ideas of misandry and reverse-sexism, both of which are oppressive concepts that aim to delegitimize the equity work that women’s movements work to do.

A fourth example comes from an event at the University of Ottawa [5].

Janice Fiamengo, who teaches in the English literature department, tried to give a public lecture on men’s issues, equality and rape culture at the university on March 28. But as shown in an hour-long YouTube video, she was repeatedly interrupted by a group of about 30 students shouting and blasting horns.

Representatives from the Canadian Association for Equality (CAFE), which organized the talk, tried to quell the crowd, but they eventually called security. The talk was moved to another room, but somebody pulled the fire alarm, which effectively shut it down.

 

[Arwon]

past?
you mean post?
My post refers to your post, which is quoted, read mine carefully and then post back.
Namely it refers to the Gender Roles in family life, Spousal Abuse and hiding of emotions you mentioned in your post.

Okay, I still can't tell what you're trying to actually say though. I listed these as things feminism is concerned with, which affect men. Are you saying that feminism is not concerned with them?

 

[caketastydelish]

I'd take labels like "egalitarianism" more seriously if I'd ever seen them used by somebody who wasn't a raging sexist.

Comments like this make me more and more weary of the "feminist" label. I'd love to identify as feminist, but the problem is most of them have a problem with perfectly reasonable terms like "egalitarianism".

Anyway, can you actually name some "raging sexists" who are such a big fan of "egalitarianism"?

 

[caketastydelish]

Ha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_Philippines

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/376614/news/specialreports/special-report-rape-in-the-philippines-numbers-reveal-disturbing-trend

So you think you know more about the Philippines than somebody who actually lives there just because you looked up two Wikipedia pages. Nice try, but try again.

 

[Traitorfish]

Okay, so Traitorfish has an opinion. How was that opinion formed? What exactly did Dawkins do and say?
...
Acquired from where? Online? His books? Did you have a negative encounter with him offline?

Watch literally any youtube video he's in. He's as insufferable as Bill Maher.

Yeah, it's not like this guy's less-than-PC ravings are a secret. In the UK, that's mostly what he's known for; nobody really gives a crap about Christianity, over here, so if he makes the news, it's usually because he's said something horrible about women or Muslims or the Irish.

 

[caketastydelish]

Ah, so feminists hate Dawkins. No wonder so many atheists find themselves at odds with feminism despite no real ideological disputes between feminism and atheism.